forums : Jungle Scene

JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

Would it be favorable or unfavorable for jungle music to become a mainstream sound? I thought about it's inevitability to happen considering how fast the music is growing here as well as the coast line. I predict that it will reach a world wide presence in 5-15 years. think about it. in 1994 jungle music BEGAT in th UK, and ten years later it's already in pockets of half the world- europe, America, Austrailia, China, etc... but China considers their Jungle just a simple "electronica."

Music doesn't just blow up any more unless it simple enough for highschool kids.

Jungle music is a mature form of sound- especially for the turn table in which I'm starting to believe that Jungle/Freeze music will be the music that will make the turn table become recognized as an instrument as worthy as a guitar.

EVERYTHING about jungle is pointing in this direction, but the result of it is so hidden, that only a junglist could see it. JUNGLE in my opinion, WILL BE AS BIG AS HIP HOP.

BUT THAT'S THE SCARY PART...

Comericalism. Rich people paying actors to learn how to spin a record and sing some stupid crappy song to a simple highschool beat. And the more you call it out, the more everyone becomes a bitch to it.

So what if all this happens? Should it happen? What will you do? What will everyone else do? How can WE all prevent all the stupid s**t from happening while up holding the glory of such a awesome sound for an instrument that deserves to be recognized as being as worthy as the guitar? TELL ME! I'm one hell of a passionate junglist. WHAT DOES MY CULTURE REFLECT?

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

On second thought...

I realized the other day how major labels become major labels. in the same year jungle was born, a hand full of music industries came together and became something similar to a conglamorate. I remember visiting the labels of universal, interscope, sony, epic, etc... all in the same f**king building. If anything, I think a good way to start out helping make jungle music a solid thing would be doing what those labels did. A bunch of jungle label joining together, sharing the economics to put on better shows, and build a stage for a music ran by people who actually know the music.

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JUNGLE WILL NEVER BE AS BIG AS HIP HOP. Let go of that dream, people. I'd love for circumstances to prove me wrong, but I just don't see it happening.

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I sure hope to hell JUngle doesn't reach hip-hop proportions. That's what ruined Hip-hop. JUngle/DnB needs to stay intimate. I think this is a bigger dream than making JUngle a "New Release" sitting next to a new Scott Stapp CD. Lordy, LOrdy, Lordy.

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

jungle is going to get much bigger than we all have thought. maybe not as big as hip hop but that is a good thing.

my fiddy cents...

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what you guys have to realize is jungle *is* hiphop.

Hiphop = graff, dancing, mcing, djing

Dnb = graff, dancing, mcing, djing

the jungle MC or DJ is more of a b-boy than some kid who wears Sean John and a fake platinum chain while bumping whatever the flavor of the month is...

as for the question about will dnb be as big as hiphop, I hope not, the reason I am into jungle is cause its new and fresh

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

it doesn't even matter. if something's going to reach the masses, you or anybody else will be entirely unable to stop it. i know a lot of people want their lives to be associated with the underground for reasons legitimate AND not, but the simple fact is that whether something is a trend or not means nothing in terms of quality, and that should be the benchmark we're going for in this music.

i don't think for a second that most of the drum and bass artists that are big now would conform to the wishes of a major label to put out something more "mainstream"...

and would it really be so bad if awareness for this scene and its music were more prominent? i don't think you realize that you are at the epicenter of drum and bass in the states, with somewhere to go enjoy it six nights a week, compared to orlando's ONE...

and look at the quality, number, and breadth of drum and bass events in london... i doubt you'd have much to complain about if you could go see a boatload of big names in a single night, at one or multiple venues.

if we want the scene to thrive here in america we shouldn't fight growth here so much. there's great strength in numbers and community. and even if something becomes too "mainstream" to be tolerable, there will always be an underground to counterbalance it.

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

I agree with the last comment as much as saying, once the mass has a hold of the music like I'm predicting, that it will reach a bigger level with out anyone stopping it. That's kind of what I'm afraid of. What I'm asking is that IF THAT HAPPENS- HOW WOULD JUNGLE AVOID SOUNDING ANYTHING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM SHIT. It would become a huge battle of sound for a jungle artist to call it out on the person portraying jungle in a mainstream form- infact- that person could be laughed at.

For the most part- I agree with every comment in here.

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

also... i think you're discounting the capacity of high school kids. were you an idiot in high school? did you eat everything the media force-fed you?

i got into raves when i was in high school, and i liked a lot of underground music besides back then... have a little more faith in the coming generations, because when all is said and done, they will be the ones writing the next chapters of this scene's history, doing newer and more incredible things than us, pushing it to greater heights, doing things we can't even conceive of yet.

and as far as what our culture represents...

i would say that's fairly impossible to quantify. the expanse of styles that fit under the dnb umbrella can appeal to anyone, because it assimilates so many other influences in an effective and refreshing way. it's like saying that our culture represents a fraction of every other culture and scene, mainstream and underground alike, all in the same room. there are shady people, there are honorable people, there are fools and philosophers, there are musicians, djs, trainspotters, punters, drunks, loadies, dancers, dreamers, empaths, psychopaths, humanitarians, etc. of ALL colors, from all different backgrounds, interested in the scene and its music for more reasons than one could count. this scene, like many others but perhaps more profound, is a representative slice of life, and a glimpse into the benefit of a certain accessibility in electronic music - which i personally don't feel that any other electronic genre has been able to capture adequately enough to ensure its longevity and progression.

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how would jungle avoid sounding like mainstream s**t? what do you define as mainstream?

if anything, i would say the most mainstream, accessible bulls**t that drum and bass has ever been associated with are all those old-ass jump-up jams, aphrodite and those overly simple twostep drums and the cheesy hip hop samples...

the music right now is INCREDIBLY far from anything that major labels would consider even remotely sellable. can you really picture a spor track coming out on columbia records or something?

make no mistake, in every genre, there is s**t that you will love and s**t that you will ABSOLUTELY hate. but these are two sides of the same coin. when classic rock was huge, which many feel was the epitome of rock and roll, there were also jillions of *horrendous* and STUPID sounding bands. you have to take the bad with the good. it really only makes sense to like what you like naturally. just because there's a mainstream side of things doesn't mean the stuff that you love is going to disappear. if anything, it will segregate the scene a little more, which is not great, but if you care that much about not being involved with anything mainstream i suppose there is a benefit. they can have "their" parties with "their" artists, and we can have our underground, and then it'll be just like rap vs. hip-hop.

either way it's only as good as you choose to perceive it. might as well make the most of whatever you can, whenever you can, and accept change as much as you do your best to CHANGE change. i hope that makes sense.

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Good point 4th..

A part of me would like to see Jungle become widely appreciated for what it's capable of doing- at any tempo, with any funk you can pull with the turn table techniques, and what ever the Mc puts out. It's just so well rounded a music. I hope one day that Jungle peaks like Rock and Roll if you have to take the good with the bad. I just hope the sound never loses it's roots when it changes. That's a personal thing. As for dreams... I don't know... I have my own.

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

once people stop wanting to get a pat on the back from the same circle of friends s**t will get intresting again.

and most people cant wrap their heads around it, so dont expect to hear any crazy tunes on kissfm anytime soon.

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

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According to bnj ...

once people stop wanting to get a pat on the back from the same circle of friends s**t will get interesting again.
**********

Thats a good point.

think outside the box.

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I dont get it. You're saying a circle of appreciation on a level of "family of friends" will be the thing that makes jungle music. I guess...

What about people trying to take their jungle to a crowd with something beyond the sound into the performance- like a vibe? You can always catch a club vibe- but there's always a higher level...

I don't know if I'm missing the point or what...

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yea you missed it.

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My reputation belongs to everyone but me. Enlighten my stupid ass. I brought up the conversation to get to the bottom of an argument that comes to every kind of music. Like House... Big in Europe... Not that big in America... Huge in Chicago. your knowledge only expands mine, man.

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According to amplefly ...

Music doesn't just blow up any more unless it simple enough for highschool kids.

Jungle music is a mature form of sound
**********

I wouldn't categorize it like that, some kinds of jungle are but what about clownstep

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

the jungle MC or DJ is more of a b-boy than some kid who wears Sean John and a fake platinum chain while bumping whatever the flavor of the month is...
*******************************

word!

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**********
According to unifire ...

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According to amplefly ...

Music doesn't just blow up any more unless it simple enough for highschool kids.

Jungle music is a mature form of sound
**********

I wouldn't categorize it like that, some kinds of jungle are but what about clownstep
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What about Clownstep? Whoever invented that name needs to be shot....not necessarily my cup of tea,...but it's almost like it's "the cool thing to do" to hate on it. I think it's funny because we as junglist pigeonhole to the point where we are the only ones that can tell the difference. I've gotten into so many classic arguments as to which classification certain tunes should be put in. It all sounds the same to most people.

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"damnnitman" - pitbull

[ mc.xyz - 30 Jan 2006 18:32 ]

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

i didn't have the attention span to read this whole thread i was just saying this isn't opera music!

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i did write a lot...

CATEGORIES?

What is the difference between JUNGLE and DRUM N BASS? Why do we need all these f**king categories if they're all related to hip-hop in the same? WHY isn't all these different categories considered one music in itself? WTF?

Some hip hop sucks, some hip hop is f**kin' illing, and it goes that way for everything- you want to call something clown step just because it sucks, you might as well just say that beat f**king sucks. WTF?

And "Clown" by the way is a name for lone graff artists here in Fresno. Artists that don't roll with gangs and are respected by any gang. the name "Clown step" representing beats that suck would offend anyone over here that knew that.

[ amplefly - 31 Jan 2006 10:58 ]

Re: CATEGORIES?

IF IT SUCKS, DON'T HELP IT EXIST.

Re: JUNGLE? MAINSTREAM?

Ther is in difference between Jungle and DNB! I hate when people say there is. Jungle is the artform, and at a certain point (mid-late 90s) when we realized this would be a real genre of music we figured it needed an official name so Drum & Bass was born. Understand that DNB is growing in LA, but everywhere else it is dying or staying stagnant. There is a long way to go before being mainstream... but just imagine: In 15-20 years you are spending time with your child and he/she walks in the house with new ghastup/macgear/UFO pants and asks you "ever hear a track called lighta?" Then I will die a happy man!

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jungle won't be mainstream until there is a more than one jungle weekly on a FRIDAY or SATURDAY night

WHAT THE FUCK

I don't think you guys consider anything outside of where you live. What about London? What about New York? Philidelphia? North Carolina? The scenes aren't getting any smaller.

by the way...

Dylan created the term clown step as a description of Shimon & Andy C's single Bodyrock, due to its swingbeat sound that inspired an image of clowns dancing. Shoot HIM, step correct.

[ amplefly - 31 Jan 2006 14:13 ]

Re: WHAT THE FUCK

Hey step correct... Dylan'll be in Canada on April 13th-30th. That gives you plenty of time to purchase a good 22.

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yea i lost track of the point of the conversation already : / sorry

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NY and Philly (and DC) have definately gone downhill over the past few years.

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Look at England and Germany for example (And most other western European countries) They have HUGE scenes with massive followings. Thousands and thousands of people show up regularly at their raves and music festivals to listen to Drum N' Bass music. It's all over their media and it IS widely accepted in their culture. Maybe because ecstacy and other drugs over there are not as widely criticized as here in the United States. Maybe because here in America, Drum N' Bass / Jungle is generally still associated with a rave/drug culture which is shunned and looked down upon by the mainstream masses. Maybe the lawmakers in America should just lighten up. There are probably hundreds of laws that are pointless and needless and the anti-rave law is one of them. They’re trying to indict people who aren’t doing anything wrong, and they’re trying to blame them for things they don’t have any control over, and then they publicize it, making out that everyone who goes out to raves is associated with drugs.

Re: WHAT THE FUCK

AmpleFly that was actually Keaton who coinned that TERM. He told Dylan

Re: WHAT THE FUCK

DnB and hip hop are fun to mix~
I think the two styles are so close in BPM, (even though one is at half time,) that future producers might merge the two more and more. This will attract a very large... very diverse crowd.
As I have noticed the trend tends to be that hip hop has a sexual vibe to it while jungle instead has a highly energetic vibe. This is a generalization but also a commonality. So what happens when we mix them? A highly energetic sexual vibe right? JK
100 years from now who knows where music will be?
My only prediction is natures old "survival of the classics"... what is good will be taken and made better.
Generation remix...


[ mixtress - 31 Jan 2006 17:09 ]
[ mixtress - 31 Jan 2006 17:05 ]

Re: WHAT THE FUCK

OH yeah, and there are a few differences between jungle and drum and bass that I have noticed. Though there are artists that sound like a mix between both, DnB tends to have fuller basslines and more predictable hats and snares. Jungle is generally much more broken and chaotic with lots and lots of amens.

Re: WHAT THE FUCK

xen0cide... I think you do drugs.

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xen0cide... I think you do drugs.

Dylan can take everything I say personally for all I care. It's not like I'M going to personally go out and shoot the poor bastard. If some body does, I don't support it.

By the way, I think it comes down like this:

HIP HOP: CHILL

DRUM N BASS: FAST PACE CHILL

JUNGLE: INTENSE ON ALL TEMPOS

Re: WHAT THE FUCK

Nope, I don't do drugs. I don't smoke. I don't drink.



...but I have been known to lie

Re: WHAT THE FUCK

xen0cide...

oooOOOOOooooh... yeah... meeee toooo...