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If This Wat It Takes To Be On A "Major"

Prodigy (of Mobb Deep), 1st week sales less the 4K

Havoc (of Mobb Deep and G-Unit), 1st week sales less then 3K

Rick Ross 1st week sales less then 3K

Drop offs from 1st week sales of rap and rock usually drop over 60%.


damn i bet Dslboy's new s**t outsells them. fuk if there is a time (with the industry hurting) for electronic music (in general) to make a huge move it is now! Unlike in the 80's new electronica music is more diverse then disco and peeps are more receptive to instrumental musics (though i will always argue a tite vocal hook can outweigh the best of instrumental songs). Actually with the surge of electronic musics from the Daft Punks to the Spank Rocks (well electronica influenced) to the production influence of Timbalands and Kanyes, to the top club djs in places like LA (AM, Aeoki, Klever, Craze) spinning mashups of all kinds of s**t and the better live shows such as Coachella's, Noc. Wndrlands, Vegoose's, Neighborhood etc. electronica music is what big labels will be looking to next probably (low overhead/advances [cause u can make killer s**t at home] and bigger returns in the form of sales, touring, merch., publishing opportunities). Crazy part is that electronica doesn't need big labels (just their distribution)... man rap, r&b and rock are throwing up bricks on the charts.

Labels are not grooming artists they just want ~ ringtones > youtube/myspace hype > songs

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Funny I was just thinking about this recently. I listen to a lot of radio and one thing i have definitely noticed is a HUGE influence of electronic / dance music sounds, especially in hip hop. And with the attention electronic music artists are gettin from all the huge music festivals that have been happening lately, it feels as though the dam is about to burst and something huge is going to happen.

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1990's if u were on a major anything less then 300K albums sold and u were a bust. Now if u can crack 65K in ur still "manageable". Indie hip hop was doing like 10K-50K (and some like Lootpack, Diplomats, Mystic Journeymen, Chamillionaire were topping 100K indie albums sold)

ffwd to 2007

If ur a major 65K and u still have a deal. Peeps go from selling 30K first week to 9K second week. Labels loosing beaucuop $$$ with advances for limos, cars, chains, wasted studio time. Meanwhile groups like Crystal Method, Daft Punks and a s**t load of others in other forms of electronica never had huge sales (so low they weren't on the majors radars) in the 1990s, but now with they are sitting in a pretty position because they music scene is embracing their sound at clubs, live shows, music sales, samples, live show lineups, festivals etc..

just funny imo how the "disco" label electronica music held in the 1990s is now being shed. I think electronica music is doing to hip hop and rock what hip hop did to disco in the 80's. we'll c

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good point chris...

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its noticable for sure. I wonder if Dance remixes will make a resurgance to initiate this ?? not too long ago any time a good single dropped you could count on the flip to house a dancefloor/club remix of the single. this alone could pump some life back into staggering sales. they did away with that during the vinyl slump as that is where most of the club remixes thrived, with the djs. but with the CDJs becoming more and more the norm, they could add dance remixes back onto the CDs and get more sales that way...?!??

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wonder what the numbers on TC 'EVOLUTION' are gonna be

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make money, go country

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Put it this way, i am pretty confident that Daft Punk could damn near out the Staples Center, but i can't name any rapper who could. Maybe (and thatz a strong maybe) Kanye with Jay-Z. I am sure Crystal Method could sellout House of Blues, but could Soulja Boy (#1 ringtone), doubt it?

Rhianna's whole new style is rock/electronic influenced.

Timbaland, great hip hop producer but recent s**t like "Ayo Technology" or Justin Timberlake, Nelly Furtado is like heavy electronic imo.

This whole hipster, sneaker kid trend is adapt to have everyone from TI to Flosstradamus to Uffie in their iPods.

idk just seems like there is a shift going on but i think electronica has an advantage because peeps been running their own labels, doing their own festival shows, building their own niches in a way hip hop wasn't when major labels approached it in the 80's.

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i get hit up on myspace a lot by hip hop mcs, producers, promoters who talk about how they want to crack into the electronic music area. hell even Lupe Fiasco said his hip hop is sometimes too complex for pure hip hop fans, but it is okay cause he can jump on a festival lineup, open up for an electronic act and rock crowds of 20K+ who do get his vibe (some of his new songs are hip hop/electronica sounding). I am not speaking on the "sound", but more the business of music is gonna shift. The sound's been shiftin'.

who thought in like 1997 PUBLIC ENEMY, RATM, DAFT PUNK, LUPE FIASCO, M.I.A. would be a lineup where mostly everyone would check out every act and not have the rock heads leave when Daft Punk comes on and the Daft Punk peeps leave when PE came on??? Crazy how s**t changes....

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i wish music mags like Rolling Stone wrote about s**t like this instead of Rolling Stone's Top 50 covers or Kanye vs 50...idk, sorry i am waiting for a conference call and bored...blah

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Busta Rhymes knows wassup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOUKHd12UAo

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i think its starting w/ this rush of new wave electro punk pop stuff that's been making headway. i spoke w/ daniel from la riots and he was soo much happier w/ where he's going now musically and he also noted how much more lucrative that sound is. look at how quickly they came up opening for acts like ed banger and coming soon...the bravery. i still think in order for dnb to break through, we need another break beat era w/ more pop appeal and better distro.

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To me drum n bass wouldnt sound good if it was poppy.
It would be so damn cheesy, and i think thats why electro is so big right now, cause that BPM is so flexible as far as sound.

But busta is right, to break in the hip hop world, ANYONE CAN DO IT NOW!!!!

Its all up to you.

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interesting info chris thanks

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i should have been more specific. by having more "pop appeal" i meant bringing the live performance and vocal element into it. electronica in general needs more live performances and less dj's.

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Def.
I like what u , Devoe, and Audio Angel got goin on.
Thats the right direction.

And with DJ's like Fresh doing live stuff lately, you know someone as big as him in our industry is thinking ahead of the game.
He knows what he has to do.



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According to jos ...

i should have been more specific. by having more "pop appeal" i meant bringing the live performance and vocal element into it. electronica in general needs more live performances and less dj's.
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hmmmm.... interesting points.

i actually hope major labels don't start trying to put their grubby little hands into the indy electronic niche's more, they will just ultimately run it into the ground and ruin it, leaving us looking for the next best thing they haven't spoiled.

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According to djwhizard ...

hmmmm.... interesting points.

i actually hope major labels don't start trying to put their grubby little hands into the indy electronic niche's more, they will just ultimately run it into the ground and ruin it, leaving us looking for the next best thing they haven't spoiled.
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this is the typical mindset but more inline w/ what chris is bringing to light, i think the majors find it appealing to run w/ whatever is already working as is. less work for them, more return.

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In the context of distro + sales, look at the new release from Radiohead.

Available ONLY on their website, and the digital download is FREE or you can CHOOSE a price for it. They bypass distro and a 'label' entity! (given the ARE radiohead lol)

The old industry standard for CD pricing + distro has been completely turned upside down as people are over being dictated what they should buy and how they should buy it; which to me is GREAT for electronic music, because it allows us to be more creative and direct with our marketing/promotion of it.

That said, DNB could use even wider distro coverage to get it to a market outside of mainly DJs, (i guess Pendulum has hit that market, and stateside talent like DSL)

Electronic music (in general) has a pretty die hard following, and open minded listener. The future is definately NOW for edm, and it will only keep growing because of the fans.

I think the real challenge in DnB is keeping the sound raw, creative, and underground as it ascends into the foreground of edm. Yes Jo-s agreed, more live acts! and im not talkin bout live drums over a dj ......

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"i think the majors find it appealing to run w/ whatever is already working as is"

wrong. haha. they try and dictate to the artist how they think it should work/sound/market because they are putting up big money and want a return on their investment.

indie labels on the other hand are usually more homegrown, and promote/sign what appeals to them, and aren't trying to change the music to fit what they believe the market is.

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According to jos ...

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According to djwhizard ...

hmmmm.... interesting points.

i actually hope major labels don't start trying to put their grubby little hands into the indy electronic niche's more, they will just ultimately run it into the ground and ruin it, leaving us looking for the next best thing they haven't spoiled.
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this is the typical mindset but more inline w/ what chris is bringing to light, i think the majors find it appealing to run w/ whatever is already working as is. less work for them, more return.
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i guess my point is (like xyz said), if you can sell as many records through an indie label these days, why would you want to sign with a major. =/

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According to McXYZ ...

Crazy part is that electronica doesn't need big labels (just their distribution)... man rap, r&b and rock are throwing up bricks on the charts.
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Good looking on that RADIOHEAD blurb. Was gonna put that up. I'll gladly give them $10 cause they are one of my fav. groups and i know they deliver.

On the point of "going pop", to me if u are in ur own lane u can create what is fashionable! I don't mind dnb going pop cause "pop" is short for "popular". The cynic will think that is bad, but hell there is good pop out there and if something is good music it is good regardless on if 10 or 10 million people like it.

i don't know where dnb fits in this whole scheme (or if it needs to be in this scheme at all). I just see a shift to focusing in on electronica music and dnb is part of that family of genres. I do think dnb has more potential then say house, but less then live show productions...

"20K+ people at Noc. Wnderland rocking out about 5K in the dnb room at a given time...question: how do u sell product to those people? How many of those people could name 1/3 of the tunes played or where to get those tunes from? Are the tunes available on MP3 or only vinyl?"

^these are the questions dnb needs to figure out imo^

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Here's a thought...working with VJs, DJs could have the name of the tune, the artist and the label (or "dubplate" if not signed) currently playing displayed along with the visualizations, that way if someone in the crowd dug the tune, they would immediately know what it was. DJs probably wouldn't be all that interested, since it strips the mystique off their choices, and it wouldn't necessarily benefit trainspotters who already know the tune being dropped, but for the casual electronic music fan who only goes to one event here and there, it would be pretty awesome.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRaQIfAsTww

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^^awww yeah the Saigon snuff. fukkin' rappers sometimes^^

Dipset takes on NYC
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZHstO3JlM8k

[ mc.xyz - 4 Oct 2007 20:39 ]

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According to dj.com ...

its noticable for sure. I wonder if Dance remixes will make a resurgance to initiate this ?? not too long ago any time a good single dropped you could count on the flip to house a dancefloor/club remix of the single. this alone could pump some life back into staggering sales. they did away with that during the vinyl slump as that is where most of the club remixes thrived, with the djs. but with the CDJs becoming more and more the norm, they could add dance remixes back onto the CDs and get more sales that way...?!??
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i can see that. and from what it seems the electro sound might lead the way

[ mythrill1904 - 4 Oct 2007 20:54 ]

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^^it has been going on. jayvon has been remixing madd hip hop songs in an electronica form and it has been a hit. a lot of djs have been doing this as of late...^^

Puff is supposed to have a electronic branch of Bad Boy coming and The Roots are supposed to be dropping an electronic album

[ mc.xyz - 4 Oct 2007 21:12 ]

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yo xyz...that busta rhymes video that you linked us up with is really interesting...he speaks some really good points/facts...especially about the $3.99 15-second ringtones VS. the .99 cent FULL mp3 songs...the only explanation i can possibly think of for this to be the way it is would be "illegal" downloads. it's alot harder to get a ringtone up & running on your cell phone free of charge than it is to get an mp3 playing on your computer/burned cd free of charge.


[ etcetera - 4 Oct 2007 21:21 ]
[ etcetera - 4 Oct 2007 21:20 ]

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I love your optimism on the matter but the only way the masses will ever accept electronic music is if they just think of it as music. I think labeling ourselves as "electronic" and not just music is slowing down the progress...
secondly "electronic" music tends to stray into the realm of experimental and avant guard ... people"the masses" want easy stupid music to like...

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I think one of the things that is needed for DnB or actually any kind of electronic music in LA or the rest of the country is FM Radio. I know you're all thinking "But no one listens to the radio anymore..." and I agree. But if there was an all DnB or at least all electronic station like there are so many of in the UK and Europe, wouldnt you listen then?
Thats a great way to get the names of the tracks out there and the djs and artists some exposure. I bet a station like that would do well now, unlike the stations that tried in the 90's and failed. I mean, they play House on power 106 during drive time. If Grooveradio were to come back now, it would do big things for all involved in the scene. Or if there was a way to get away with a Pirate out here it would be even better, but from what Ive heard looking into it the FCC will shut you down in matter of days...

Biggups to the guys doing the few FM shows out there, we just need to get you guys more wattage!

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I like alot of this new electro sound and the mashup/diy remix/bmore/cut'n'paste sound and tbh, alot of it is pretty stupid and easy to take, no matter what you call it. The lines are getting so blurry in alot of areas now that I dont think its a matter of what you call it, but that its a matter of hype. You would be suprised who's listening to what on their iPods without any idea of what its meant to be called. If you talk to someone outside the scene they call dnb, house and breaks all techno or electro.

Besides, I dont think its us making the decision that it be called electronic, we call it that based on what others have already labeled it for sake of conversation. If it wasnt called electronic, it would be called something else.

The Beatles used to be considered pretty experimental and avant garde too...

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According to piston22 ...

I love your optimism on the matter but the only way the masses will ever accept electronic music is if they just think of it as music. I think labeling ourselves as "electronic" and not just music is slowing down the progress...
secondly "electronic" music tends to stray into the realm of experimental and avant guard ... people"the masses" want easy stupid music to like...
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I think where electronic DANCE music has always had its sales downfall has been the fact that inherently it is DANCE music.

Since I am not a DJ, most edm tracks produced are extended introductions and closing on the tracks which have been primary for dj mixing us listeners get bored as we have always been hooked on DJ mixes.

Second, when I play EDM i dont want to fast forward or skip tracks, usually I put it in rock out.

We are bred through the DJ and thats what we look to when searching out a specific genere of music.

Non dj listeners know DJ's and not producers.

This effects the market for dance music because outside of acts like Daft Punk you end up with DJ mixes. A good mix contained over 20-30 produced tracks.

Take a $10.00 sale of a record, broken between 25 tracks, leaves 40 cents per track.

Now you have a producer share, writer share, label, distributor, recoupables...all down the line ends up into pennies.

As I non DJ I would not even know who look for when looking for a song I like. Bu t I know who look for when I see dj I like spin a set.

To make sales begin to make sense, you have to put a face to an act (justice, ed banger..might be the future).

You have to consolidate the music and market those acts to prominence (daft punk, tiesto)

With technology everyone is a producer so that market is flooded.

EDM is a very tricky market, to hit large sales its gonna hve to be alot of cross over into other genre's.

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it'd be a good start to shed the "Techno" label everyone puts on every form of electronic music (that doesnt know it). to me, techno is 90s..

good point dave on the remixes. i have tons of hip hop tunes with house/breaks/jungle remixes.. like de la soul, digital underground, scarface, beastie boys, special ed, etc etc etc

to me, thats when music was very versatile and FUN...

wait a minute... could this be some sort of possible point where its going back to a house party style of music? and i mean as in your home. thats what the late 80s and early 90s seemed like to me.. the music then.. one big house party. and it was my fav


edit** cant spell

[ mainframe - 5 Oct 2007 09:21 ]

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EXACTLY!
It's all about the small labels.
::big GRIN::
wink wink


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According to djwhizard ...

i guess my point is (like xyz said), if you can sell as many records through an indie label these days, why would you want to sign with a major. =/

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According to McXYZ ...

Crazy part is that electronica doesn't need big labels (just their distribution)... man rap, r&b and rock are throwing up bricks on the charts.
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Good points on the DJ vs Producer look Freddy Fox. More people do identify with the DJ and have no idea who are producers behind the tunes.

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lot of good info there xyz and everyone else...


i think the point being made is ANYTHING is possible at this moment.

so all those ideas u have been saving up in your head....let em loose!

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freddy is spot on!