forums : Jungle Scene

damn shame

The other day, i was playing a set and this young up and commer whos doing very big things, saw that i was spinning brand new tunes on vinyl.
After trainspotting my whole set he asked me how i got all those new tunes on vinyl, and why didnt i just pay for the mp3's.
I explained to him that i do not own a cdj or serrato or any new avenue that has been presented to us as of late.
He could not believe how much vinyl i was using.
Now this kid is doing big things and i consider to be a prime example of the new blood of our music.

With the outlook the young generation has on vinyl and how they have grown up with the MP3, how do you feel?

I personally have the best expierence with the real thing.
It sounds better, feels better, looks better and u get the momento of the release.

Im not knocking the cdj/serrato users either, how else am i gonna play my own tunes or homies tunes????

I was just shocked at the outlook upon buying established artists/labels music.

discuss

[ kellyd - 26 Feb 2008 15:07 ]

Re: damn shame

vinyl has a s**tload of drawbacks and as digital media solutions through vinyl manipulation or cdjs or traktor or ableton fall in price vinyl will without a doubt disappear

i don't see anything wrong with it they used to ride horses now they drive cars

horses were alot friendlier and you could probably love it more than you can your car, but the advantages of digital media just outweigh the nostalgia of vinyl

i don't think its anything to feel bad about

Re: damn shame

less interesting to watch live...

that is sure

Re: damn shame

what you find it less interesting to watch someone on serato than playing vinyl?
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According to missbassie ...

less interesting to watch live...

that is sure
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Re: damn shame

Ppl would rather pay $575 for serato and some extra cables n control records- (playin an x amt of songs) than spend $575 for approx 100 songs on vinyl..

Don't get me wrong.. I love vinyl w a passion, its just so very expensive and I have become picky looking for only the best of the best..

W digital only a fraction is spent and you can update your collection wayyy faster..

Some ppl still buy vinyl anyhow and rip it to a wav/aiff so that serato can handle it w/o wearing out the record itself..

There's so many ways to do it..

[ magnafide - 26 Feb 2008 15:35 ]

Re: damn shame

Maybe i just love the collecting aspect of it.
Like i own a piece of the work, rather than it be a file that will get lost.
Last night i was searching label catalogs and then typing in a cat. # on google, it would link me to a sour rip.
That was disturbing!
And once again im not knocking the mp3 option that we have, i use beatport, and i love it.
But when i buy an mp3, its nothing like the 12 inch.

[ kellyd - 26 Feb 2008 15:37 ]

Re: damn shame

I like that, thats smart!
I think im just sad to see it like this, thats all.


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According to magnafide ...

Some ppl still buy vinyl anyhow and rip it to a wav/aiff so that serato can handle it w/o wearing out the record itself..

There's so many ways to do it..t
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Re: damn shame

I played vinyl for years upon years. I really love it.. but I stink at taking care of it and tend to really wear my records out. I used to break myself every month.. I have a stack of pressed dubplates I hardly ever even used...
For me, it makes sense to use something like serato..but I play mostly unreleased tracks on it. And I still buy vinyls that I really like and play them. To each their own I say.

Re: damn shame

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According to broken_records....

what you find it less interesting to watch someone on serato than playing vinyl?
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According to missbassie ...

less interesting to watch live...

that is sure
**********
unless you get some button pushin backfilppin pro behind that sh$T

[ missbassie - 26 Feb 2008 15:50 ]

Re: damn shame

i am sure you don't really know what you are talking about....

serato vs vinyl....

it looks the same
i think you are just here to say
you don't like changes


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According to missbassie ...

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According to broken_records....

what you find it less interesting to watch someone on serato than playing vinyl?
**********
According to missbassie ...

less interesting to watch live...

that is sure
**********
unless you get some button pushin backfilppin pro behind that sh$T

**********

Re: damn shame

Haha sad but true.. If you're gonna use serato at the very least try to play unsigned material that you might get your hands upon.. w so many local and worldwide artist comin up, why not support them w serato? Vinyl always sounds so much phatter tho *sigh*

Re: damn shame

That is also a downside in my book.
When playing out live, people have told me that the tunes on serrato sounded weaker then the vinyl i was playing.


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According to magnafide ...

Haha sad but true.. If you're gonna use serato at the very least try to play unsigned material that you might get your hands upon.. w so many local and worldwide artist comin up, why not support them w serato? Vinyl always sounds so much phatter tho *sigh*
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Re: damn shame

broken_records...

I really don't.

Re: damn shame

this has a lot to do with the source of your mp3's, and if you know how to rip from vinyl to mp3. Best investment for any serato user that rips from vinyl is a preamp, the mp3 will sound nearly identical to the vinyl. Also knowing how to work with the gains on serato really helps, if you dont know how to adjust them the records will sound flat...

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According to kellyd ...

That is also a downside in my book.
When playing out live, people have told me that the tunes on serrato sounded weaker then the vinyl i was playing.
**********

Re: damn shame

ive spoke with a couple serrato users about this issue and they seem oblivious to it.
Is it true when importing a tune into serrato you have to set the gain so its not redlining inside serrato?
And if so, it defaults its gain to that exact level each time you upload the tune?

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According to djchasm ...

this has a lot to do with the source of your mp3's, and if you know how to rip from vinyl to mp3. Best investment for any serato user that rips from vinyl is a preamp, the mp3 will sound nearly identical to the vinyl. Also knowing how to work with the gains on serato really helps, if you dont know how to adjust them the records will sound flat...

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According to kellyd ...

That is also a downside in my book.
When playing out live, people have told me that the tunes on serrato sounded weaker then the vinyl i was playing.
**********
**********

Re: damn shame

Yeah it does that, but I try to avoid that auto gain thing all together. If it's not loud sounding to begin with.. I wont play it. There is a very noticeable difference, but if your whole set is quality ripped tunes it sounds good..so far... Don't ask me though I'm no expert I've only had this s**t for about a month now.

Re: damn shame

The Medium is the Massage

Re: damn shame

why do i draw fonts when i can just type them?

why do i silk screen when i can just xerox?

why sketch when i can take a picture.

why paint when i can use an epson.


its art...

... you can have respect for the integrity and tradition of a medium while not living in the past. totally discounting a medium is just as silly as not embracing something new and different. they each have their place.

Re: damn shame

I use cdjs only if I need too. I love vinyl. I f**ked with a serrato before and I have to admit I liked it. Didn't really notice any difference in regards to release or feel to it. Hell even cdj's have good release time (well the good ones).

The only thing I dont like is that it looks like the DJ is checking their emails. If I get a serrato I'm gonna keep it where i would normally keep my record bag, and take the record off and on the turntable, just so I looks like I normally would when I play

Other then that I got nothing against it really. Kinda crazy how the young blood look at vinyl in so much awe. But its the wave of the future so we might as well accept it. Its cool to see DJ's like J Magik stick to vinyl by pressing all his dubs, but that's very rare. Especially for big time DJ's.

Re: damn shame

Undoubtedly... This topic will segway into the next question....


Who has the cooler looking onstage laptop?

Re: damn shame

AKA Who has the cooler record bag? 2008 Edition.

Re: damn shame

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According to kellyd ...

Maybe i just love the collecting aspect of it.
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agreed to the fullest.


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According to kellyd ...

When playing out live, people have told me that the tunes on serrato sounded weaker then the vinyl i was playing.
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This is true.

Re: damn shame

all i got to say about the subject is:

www.turnstylerecords.com

Re: damn shame

dubplates are a waist of money...period.

Re: damn shame

ill take my tunes to oscar to have him master it.....

but yes... cutting a $30 dub just is not the economical thing to do...

its like driving an SUV in todays gas price war...yeah..you may look cool, but.. really..you dont get there any faster

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According to jos ...

dubplates are a waist of money...period.
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Re: damn shame

there's no question vinyl is a better medium...

but ya cutting dubs is not very smart.

plus on technics you can do more tricks, stops, rewinds, etc... and it sounds awesome. scratching / rewinds etc on cdj's sound pretty s**tty and serato is certainly a step above but definitely below vinyl. Plus the levels can be way waaaay off unless you know what your doing. How many times have you heard people drop tracks in far too low?

but I'm about to buy another cd-j just out of necessity ... one cd-j doesn't cut it with all the tunes I want to play, and it's just the evolution of the music. but I'm almost at the point where Im tired of mp3's - there IS a BIG difference, I just want straight .wavs. I love that Juno sells .wavs, eventually as technology gets better I hope we can just do away with the .mp3 format! maybe I'm too serious but I want to mantain the highest quality I can, its personal.

I don't think vinyl is too expensive. Personally I think 10-12$ for a pristine plate of great tunes you'll have for life is a great deal. They even appreciate in value. For me it's hell of a lot more inspiring to sort through a crate of vinyl, lookin for that next tune to drop, then flipping through cd's.

Maybe it's the throwaway nature of tunes and music though. I mean to play the standard set nowadays on vinyl you gotta drop a ton of cash on some dancefloor tunes that your probably not gonna play a year from now. I think if your just rinsing out 30 tunes an hour its probably much better to just buy the mp3s for 2 or 3 bucks.

but for some guy to say vinyl is a hassle or question the integrity of it is really pathetic. To write off vinyl is like bypassing some of the best music ever made for the sake of not having your scrawny arms tired!!! lift some weights fool! buy some wax!

/rant damn I probably should smoke some ganja

[ hiddensound - 26 Feb 2008 18:06 ]

Re: damn shame

well put... I use @ 65% vinyl and 35% tractor scratch for dubs (it sounds better than serrato or cdj's) and I will never stop buying vinyl... but i'm picky with what I do spend money on..

long live the art.

**********
According to aero ...

why do i draw fonts when i can just type them?

why do i silk screen when i can just xerox?

why sketch when i can take a picture.

why paint when i can use an epson.


its art...

... you can have respect for the integrity and tradition of a medium while not living in the past. totally discounting a medium is just as silly as not embracing something new and different. they each have their place.
**********

Re: damn shame

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgtrBLY9ptg



lulz.

Re: damn shame

why do i watch dvds when i could watch vhs

why do i use a computer when i could use a typewriter

why do i use paper when i could use a leaf



why do i use myspace when i could use friendster

**********
According to aero ...

why do i draw fonts when i can just type them?

why do i silk screen when i can just xerox?

why sketch when i can take a picture.

why paint when i can use an epson.


its art...

... you can have respect for the integrity and tradition of a medium while not living in the past. totally discounting a medium is just as silly as not embracing something new and different. they each have their place.
**********

Re: damn shame

I gotta add it's great that you can just download a single Mp3 off an LP or EP instead of buying the whole thing though

Re: damn shame

Each to their own.....Some of the biggest names in the industry AndyC, Hype, Hight Contrast, Cyantific to name but a few still use and prefer to use vinyl, mainly because of reasons already discussed but it is a preference thing. Yeah needle may skip once in a while but it keeps you on edge. I love digging through my collection and pulling out a vinyl I wanna play. There is still a demand for vinyl and I don't think its gonna disappear any time soon and certainly dont think it should be looked at as out dated technology as it still has many benefits.

Re: damn shame

the difference is that connor's examples center around art and your examples center around technology...

sure, why watch a vhs when you can watch a dvd... that makes sense...

but, why paint a picture when you can just use a camera and take a picture... there is an artistic reason (and value) for that...

if DJing is an art, and we can definitely understand that it is an art when we see a true artist at work behind the decks (andy c, craze, r.a.w., etc) - then there is a reason to value the use of vinyl as its part of an art form, an artistic expression.

**********
According to broken_records ...

why do i watch dvds when i could watch vhs

why do i use a computer when i could use a typewriter

why do i use paper when i could use a leaf



why do i use myspace when i could use friendster

**********
According to aero ...

why do i draw fonts when i can just type them?

why do i silk screen when i can just xerox?

why sketch when i can take a picture.

why paint when i can use an epson.


its art...

... you can have respect for the integrity and tradition of a medium while not living in the past. totally discounting a medium is just as silly as not embracing something new and different. they each have their place.
**********
**********

Re: damn shame

my thing is the VINYL does not make the art form

richie hawtin, a sides, marcus intalex and sasha are not lesser artists because they use new technology


one day computers are going to completely replicate a mix live

technology is forcing us to reevaluate the artform and what it is we do

vinyl is a dead medium that only holds back the dj

art will evolve
we went from black and white film to color film

digital is a step beyond analog
cds are better than tape
wavs better than cds

what i see in the future is you make a tune and it comes with the complete sample pack and we mix and remix on the fly with that

vinyl is dead, its strictly for collectors, archivists, nostalgists...if not today then absolutely positively for sure in 10 years

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According to djwhizard ...

the difference is that connor's examples center around art and your examples center around technology...

sure, why watch a vhs when you can watch a dvd... that makes sense...

but, why paint a picture when you can just use a camera and take a picture... there is an artistic reason (and value) for that...

if DJing is an art, and we can definitely understand that it is an art when we see a true artist at work behind the decks (andy c, craze, r.a.w., etc) - then there is a reason to value the use of vinyl as its part of an art form, an artistic expression.

**********
According to broken_records ...

why do i watch dvds when i could watch vhs

why do i use a computer when i could use a typewriter

why do i use paper when i could use a leaf



why do i use myspace when i could use friendster

**********
According to aero ...

why do i draw fonts when i can just type them?

why do i silk screen when i can just xerox?

why sketch when i can take a picture.

why paint when i can use an epson.


its art...

... you can have respect for the integrity and tradition of a medium while not living in the past. totally discounting a medium is just as silly as not embracing something new and different. they each have their place.
**********
**********
**********

Re: damn shame

A 320kbit MP3 sounds just as good as vinyl. As for the volume levels, if you adjust Serato's gain you should be OK. I've tested it myself before. Ripped a vinyl to 320 and played against the original record. The quality and volume was almost identical.

I can understand the value of collecting the vinyl and artwork, but for some people it makes more sense to pay $1.99 and get a 320 MP3 version and still support the artist. The problem is not all labels/artists offer their releases as MP3's, which forces you to have to buy the vinyl if you like the tune.

Re: damn shame

It's a DJ question, yeah?

If I'm on the dancefloor, and you're killing it, I don't give a f**k if you're playing cassette tapes, you're killing it.

And when I realize, gosh, you're actually playing everything off a My First Sony tapeplayer? Still don't care!!

Boh, selectah!!

Re: damn shame

can i get a WOOT WOOT for my fellow collectors, archivists and nostalgists out there!?!!



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According to broken_records ...

vinyl is dead, its strictly for collectors, archivists, nostalgists...if not today then absolutely positively for sure in 10 years
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[ rickschrode - 27 Feb 2008 12:24 ]

Re: damn shame

it's a beautiful thing, really...







=)

Re: damn shame

good examples on another level, but i dont think it has to be so black and white. it sounds like more of a defense mechanisim than an arguement. we could come up with analogies to fit both sides all day i was just hoping to shed some light on why both mediums have their place. I'm glad that vinyl is dead to you. long live open mindedness.


i really just want to dance, and not have people call me a dinosaur because i like some of my old vinyl. it genuinely seems like a weird polarizing defense, like people used to be against final scratch and serrato and now that its got some momentum behind it its time for those people who have been using it for more than a year to get on their high horses, oh wait, we dont use horses anymore. prolly time to change that saying too.

tradition has its place


technology has its place




**********
According to broken_records ...

why do i watch dvds when i could watch vhs

why do i use a computer when i could use a typewriter

why do i use paper when i could use a leaf



why do i use myspace when i could use friendster

**********
According to aero ...

why do i draw fonts when i can just type them?

why do i silk screen when i can just xerox?

why sketch when i can take a picture.

why paint when i can use an epson.


its art...

... you can have respect for the integrity and tradition of a medium while not living in the past. totally discounting a medium is just as silly as not embracing something new and different. they each have their place.
**********
**********

Re: damn shame

I wonder what someone like Cool Herc
would have said of us mixing vinyl on our current fancy shmancy equipment we use these days? That we are cheating?

Re: damn shame

the opposite side of that arguement is that perhaps serrato is a medium that enables bad dj's who cant beat match, guage transitions or spend time mixing.

it takes all kinds.



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According to broken_records ...



vinyl is a dead medium that only holds back the dj


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**********

Re: damn shame

WOOT WOOT!!!

Remember collecting basball cards?
Yeah, its kinda like that.
Remember when mp3's came out and you started buying them, and u didnt get the book insert thats on the cd?
To me the art and everything on the sleeve represents a visual aspect of the artist.
And thats just one thing about vinyl i absolutely love.
It becomes a piece of history, mp3's are just computer files, they are not real.




Ive used serrato and i like it, its a very cool tool.

Re: damn shame

the way this music is produced and distributed has changed hence it is inevitable that the way it is played will change as well.

Re: damn shame

i have to find that button on my serato....

basically all i can do is store a thousand tunes, search them quickly and see the wave form a little clearer than i can see the grooves in a record...any of the bpm aids are GARBAGE for dnb

i play the same on vinyl as i do on serato, i just have more tunes and a funny interface to play around with

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According to aero ...

the opposite side of that arguement is that perhaps serrato is a medium that enables bad dj's who cant beat match, guage transitions or spend time mixing.

it takes all kinds.



**********
According to broken_records ...



vinyl is a dead medium that only holds back the dj


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**********
**********

Re: damn shame

i am not trying to be closed minded i am trying to be open minded...

serato has opened a world of possibilites up to me that vinyl couldn't afford me

when i play at home it can me an hour of dnb then an hour of breaks prog dubstep whatever

i just couldn't do that with vinyl

i love my vinyl i have a huge collection

but i have never had more fun djing than when i got serato

Re: damn shame

The only downside I can honestly say IMO is that exclusive/non-released tunes are
a lot less so with the digital thing. Used to kind of be a big deal to have a bunch of unsigned stuff and then to get it pressed was another experience all together. These days it's done fairly effortlessly by the majority. But hey makes for more diverse sets I guess.

Re: damn shame

re:broken records...

that was an elequent answer. clearly states how you feel , thanks mang. originally it sounded like you were ready to have a record burning ala disco at shea stadium 1986.

i agree as well. its an amazing tool. as i spend my week digging thru vinyl, i wish that it was all on this box in front of me. but sometimes the tactile experience of flipping sleeves feels good...

...the sad part is that even institutions like Polaroid cameras are being forced out at this point. As of this year you wont be able to purchase polaroid fim anymore. all i hear is people angry that polaroid is going out of business, when realistically if the financial support was there, they would be able to stay open.

[ aero - 27 Feb 2008 13:17 ]

Re: damn shame

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According to aero ...

re:broken records...

that was an elequent answer. clearly states how you feel , thanks mang. originally it sounded like you were ready to have a record burning ala disco at shea stadium 1986.

i agree as well. its an amazing tool. as i spend my week digging thru vinyl, i wish that it was all on this box in front of me. but sometimes the tactile experience of flipping sleeves feels good...

...the sad part is that even institutions like Polaroid cameras are being forced out at this point. As of this year you wont be able to purchase polaroid fim anymore. all i hear is people angry that polaroid is going out of business, when realistically if the financial support was there, they would be able to stay open.

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Well said Conner!

Re: damn shame

may i add... your sn really adds the *oomph* to the arguement :teef:

oh and you dont love that vinyl, its old and outdated and dusty! so, uh, go ahead and send that to p.o. box.......


serato is cool.. its real fun to play on.. and it makes not-so-great djs look a lot better (thats seriously not pointed at you haha) cause theres someone here who uses it and does tablism and im just shaking my head... *that* is cheating.. doing doubles by pushing buttons is ghey.

but i like how you can store up all your songs and put them in order and yakkety yak.. id love it for my radio show but hooking that thing up for live shows is irritating..

thats personal preference tho. honestly, i dont really pay attention to what the dj is playing on.. if he/she is killin it, they're killin it.

however, i dont like programs that beat match for you and basically all you gotta do is throw it in. thats just.. i dunno.. poop.
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According to broken_records ...

i am not trying to be closed minded i am trying to be open minded...

serato has opened a world of possibilites up to me that vinyl couldn't afford me

when i play at home it can me an hour of dnb then an hour of breaks prog dubstep whatever

i just couldn't do that with vinyl

i love my vinyl i have a huge collection

but i have never had more fun djing than when i got serato
**********

Re: damn shame

i just want to make it clear that i suck just as much on serato as i do on vinyl =)

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According to mainframe ...

may i add... your sn really adds the *oomph* to the arguement :teef:

oh and you dont love that vinyl, its old and outdated and dusty! so, uh, go ahead and send that to p.o. box.......


serato is cool.. its real fun to play on.. and it makes not-so-great djs look a lot better (thats seriously not pointed at you haha) cause theres someone here who uses it and does tablism and im just shaking my head... *that* is cheating.. doing doubles by pushing buttons is ghey.

but i like how you can store up all your songs and put them in order and yakkety yak.. id love it for my radio show but hooking that thing up for live shows is irritating..

thats personal preference tho. honestly, i dont really pay attention to what the dj is playing on.. if he/she is killin it, they're killin it.

however, i dont like programs that beat match for you and basically all you gotta do is throw it in. thats just.. i dunno.. poop.
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According to broken_records ...

i am not trying to be closed minded i am trying to be open minded...

serato has opened a world of possibilites up to me that vinyl couldn't afford me

when i play at home it can me an hour of dnb then an hour of breaks prog dubstep whatever

i just couldn't do that with vinyl

i love my vinyl i have a huge collection

but i have never had more fun djing than when i got serato
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**********

Re: damn shame

You could count me as one of the new "up and comers." I just picked up a pair of Technics a month ago... I've always been in awe of vinyl but the reality of how expensive it is is hitting me hard. That, beyond anything else, will probably decide how far I pursue it -- I've only got about $100 of wax, I'm piss broke, and I can't afford any more. Vinyl's nice to work with, but when you're young and broke, mixing the same 12 tunes over and over again gets old fast. I went with vinyl out of respect for the medium -- and to learn how to mix properly -- but I'm undecided yet as to whether I'll stay.

Vinyl just has a high barrier to entry. Anyone who sat through an Economics 100 class will tell you that most people will almost always go with whatever gives them the most bang for the least buck ... and with the disposable nature of music today (I still refuse to buy mp3s... lossless only... but god its hard to stick by that) its easy to see why.

[ luciphercolors - 27 Feb 2008 13:39 ]