forums : Jungle Scene

Future of the Business of Music

Damn idk $150 mill to a 37 year old Jay-Z, $100 mill to a 49 year old Madonna. But i guess if you get a piece of everything they do that is good, but damn that is a gang to recoup...

http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/30/news/companies/live_nation.fortune/index.htm

Re: Future of the Business of Music

Don't forget the 50 year olds known as U2 who also got a ten year, 360 deal.

Live Nation will recoup; because their business model is the sweat off of the artists back. These people are always top grossers in concert revenue.

Say goodbye to Ticketmaster too. Thank god.. those friggen modern day Mobsters and price gouging pricks..


sorry, they left a sour taste in my mouth on numerious occassions.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

They may recoup on those three artists, but i doubt they change the game. Seems like they are only interested in the super cream of the crop. I mean are they gonna throw millions at artists who may sell only like 100,000 cds but tour heavily? Changing the business structure for the middlemen will change the industry, not changing it for the U2's of the world. Plus most artists are in 7 year (7 album) deals and i think we all know that rarely any artist meets that miletone, so Live Nation will have to buy out a grip of contracts (an probably overpay now that record companies know their pockets are deep). They may recoup, but i think they are going to be running in the red for a long while before they do.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

And if this is the only sort of deal Live Nation wants to sign, there soon won't be any more U2's or Madonnnas.

I mean, if it wasn't for little deals meant to foster talent (and not just cash in on a monster level), you'd never have a Madonna or U2.

I can only hope maybe the industry will be forced back to a more 70's model, where Companies spend less on more artist. I'm sick to death of labels have a dozen artists they pour all their resources into.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

interesting read. not really revolutionary.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

Great Topic! This is so true, but so wrong.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

i think it is revolutionary what they are doing on a big scale. agree wholeheartedly with Colonel. Problem is that that labels sign too many people and don't cultivate talent. I honestly think that is a BIG problem with drum n bass. Everyone is on 100,000 labels and it is sort of comical now. I mean remember when (in hip hop) being on DEF JAM was a BIG ASS DEAL, but now no one cares cause they are signing everyone. i think the same in dnb. I ain't going to call out names and stuff cause it is not relevant, but i think artists being on 100,000 labels a) dilutes labels and b) dilutes the artists and c) u never know what sound to expect. I kind of like what BREAKBEAT KAOS tried (sign exclusivity deals), but think they went about it kind of wrong, but at least u knew what to expect from their product everytime and they took only a handful (very few) of artists to make their roster (or check VALVE).

Anyways...yeah Live Nation is good for the U2s and Jay-Z's but what about the Lupe Fiasco's or Raveonettes or M.I.A.'s etc.. Will they get deals which pay them an exobenantly more advance then they may deserve...doubt it, but these people tour all the time hard.

[ mc.xyz - 7 Apr 2008 09:52 ]

Re: Future of the Business of Music

he is acting as an idependent rep for the biggest of the big. they handle it all... that has been done time and time again. maybe i am missing something here... revolutionary NO.

artists will always need representation. it will be labels or it will be an independent company. What is his company doing that is so revolutionary.

"artists need to be artists."

Re: Future of the Business of Music

it hasn't been done in the sense that he is consolidating EVERYTHING that an artist does. Yes like a management firm will handle ur press, booking tours etc., but this is a first of a independent entity taking a piece of everything you as an artist does and especially on this high scale. So every mixtape Jay-Z logs, every commercial he gets, every cross promotion he does, any performance he does, any merchandise etc....this is unprecedant. Everything u do artistically under the name of JAY-Z or U2 Live Nation is taking a piece of it and it is on a sliding scale. It is not a set-in-stone agent percentage or manager percentage or mech percentage. It varies. Also Live Nation is using this co-op to be able to fine tune their marketing like never before. By having all the info under one roof on what demographic will buy a black Jay-Z shirt with red trimmings and compare that to who bought it in comparison to him wearing it on the live show dvd they sold, they can market more efficiently like never before. Even though we think that being on "Def Jam" u'd figure they would share marketing/promotion info that is the furthest from the case ever. Intercompany people it is hard to get everyone on the same page. I work for a music publisher and i have no idea what the master owners (the labels) are doing and they question what we (publishers) do and vica versa. This is also the deal with promotion departments/marketing etc.. Live Nation's "claim" is to have this as a science since they will be controlling it all. The big big big drawback for Live Nation is that thee money maker in the music business is music publishing and they won't control that. They may reshape the record label business (if they are lucky) and promotions/marketing/touring/merchandising, but without music publishing right now this deal, imo, looks unimpressive.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

ok... so if they can research everything to a science as they say... that is pretty massive. having that information at your fingertips is priceless.

the industry is changing, but this does not mean it is for the worst. the industry needs change imho. labels need to be creative.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

revolutionary i dont think so.

basically if your a major artist this guy will give you a grip of money but he owns everything you do.

a good business idea. major artists obviously agree with him.

i wonder if he is going to be a slave driver? ordering the artist to do or possibly publish something the artist may not agree with...thats the only problem i see. but if you signed those contracts the artist doesnt really have a choice do they.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

I seriously doubt LiveNation's business model is going to be the future of the music industry. Their stock has been in free fall since October of last year and has basically failed to perform since their IPO in late 2005. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Wall Street knows anything about the fickle tastes of the American music-consuming public, but the fact that LiveNation lost $18 million in Q4 2007 indicates to me that they're having trouble monetizing this new "one stop shop" business model.

These hundred million dollar deals with artists like Madonna and Jay-Z seem more like a way to spend the massive glut of IPO cash they have than a real, long-term investment strategy. Relying on these top line artists also shows that they're stuck in a hit mentality.

I give them credit for taking an innovative spin on the music industry by blurring the lines between record label, venue owner, ticket retailer, and concert promoter, but they've failed to account for the niche markets that make services like iTunes so damn successful. LiveNation is betting everything on a few high-profile artists while the music-loving public have ever-broadening tastes that are being fulfilled by a huge number of smaller acts.

A good example would be paying $100 for a 3-day Coachella ticket (100+ artists?) versus dropping $300 for one night of watching Madonna from the nosebleeds.

I wholeheartedly agree with the above comments about artist development. I seriously doubt we'll ever see a band like Pink Floyd who takes 3+ albums to really reach the height of artistic genius again with the way the music industry is structured today. Nowadays, if an artist doesn't hit with their first single they in all likelihood won't even have a debut album. It's a sad, sad situation.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

"revolutionary" not as in the idea, but the execution of it (what other company has done this)?

in terms of the "slave driver" i don't think he can be right now because he is signing acts that are so established that they move at the beat of their own drum. i mean who does U2 or Jay-Z or Madonna owe? no one. they can do as they please. Jay-Z saw American Gangstaer (a screening) and just decided to do an album, decided not to go thru iTunes (no label would do that) and he put it out. Madonna creatively does whatever she wants. a marketing team doesn't tell her wat to do, she dictates it. same with U2, no one is telling them to tour to support their album, they can tour whenever they feel like. It will be a bigger issue with smaller acts i agree because though the "payday" will be great, what u owe may not be so good. Plus i bet they start lobbying to swipe catalogues for music publishing. THey can't touch too many things now cause the publishing game is far more entrenched and in better shape then record companies (who only get paid off of album sales). We'll see though... I will say i do like the part in the article in which they said they will market and figure out what fans/demographics are willing to pay for concert tickets. A $100 concert ticket is different at The Hollywood Bowl then it is at The House of Blues then at a huge festival then at The Whiskey etc..

Re: Future of the Business of Music

Live Nation bought the cash cows in the industry. This is like the Major Leagues of Artists. They are on the downside of their careers and this is like the equivalent of the the Walmart greeter position for retirees. No thinking or extra effort involved.

They most likely will not buy into the smaller artists coming up. However I will go on a tiny ledge and say I wouldn't put it past LN to have a farm team of smaller sister companies that will offer comparable deals.

From $5 digital downloads to $500 tickets with meet and greets is where it looks like its heading to me. They will throw in a CD and free song for the $50 dollar a year fan club members who also subscribe to their latest ringtone/wallpapers for their blackberries that are special edition from Madonna to U2 Red.

I do love the smell of commerce in the morning.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

The revolutionary idea i think that is missed upon in all of this is that in this business of music, Live Nation is striving to make the MUSIC maybe the 2nd, 3rd or 4th most important thing about the artist. They are not buying into JAY-Z's music or U2's music, but in exploiting (a good work in music) the 'idea' in a sense of them and they are not afraid to say it. They will not be like "ohhh here is the new Madonna album letz push it hard out there, nope they are like Madonna is more then music and her music is secondary to the entity of "Madonna". It is like this way of thinking was only reserved for dead music legends, but now Live Nation is saying...forget the focus on being 'the music' (not to say they hate 'quality music'), but the music becomes just another spoke in the wheel of the artist

Re: Future of the Business of Music

marketing packages... limited edition... etc. this is going to be the future of the music industry.

there is nothing wrong with this... it is just the way it is.

ok... so music is basically free now. what these one stop shops are doing is marketing the person behind the music not even the music... wtf! i know this has been going on since the dawn of time time... but seriously wtf! we are buying an image... ima stop there. i may have to post a new thread to rant on that issue.

basically they will be selling us products that we can not duplicate.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

360 deals or stfu

Re: Future of the Business of Music

360 deals with labels are retarded imo because they take ur publishing most of the times. reeeetarded. never ever ever ever ever give away ur publishing unless u are writing for like Mariah Carey and she wants 50% of ur publishing (cause u will make ur bank cause she sells) or unless u get a big advance (which u won't unless u are a big household name and have multiple counter offers from other companies). if u know ur business and got it straight go with administration deals or administrators. i love love love working for the world's best boutique administration companies (Kobalt Music) esp. coming from the top dogg (Universal). so progressive for the artists, business model and the bottom line + the attention to detail (meaning we treat for instance William Orbit with as much persistence (in pushing their material) as we do The Hives. Unfortunately with big publishers you don't get that...if ur Elton John's management u can get someone on the phone if u aren't good luck with that....

Re: Future of the Business of Music

hahaha


HIT MAN OR STFU

Re: Future of the Business of Music

hey xyz, where are you working at now? i tried to email you a little while ago and it bounced. are you still working in the industry? why did you leave your previous job?

Re: Future of the Business of Music

Nothing Clear Channel EVER does will be revolutionary.

This strikes me as a new version of the monopolist-ideal approach that Clear Channel used to destroy free markets for radio.

Control is not revolutionary. Any artist who gives theirs up to someone who values the control of a commodity more than the source is a fool.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

Marketing bundles... This is just the beginning. PPR does it too... as I stated this is only the beginning.

http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.php?threadid=566082&cache=73

Re: Future of the Business of Music

*** "The labels are in a jam," says Guy Oseary, Madonna's manager. "For a company to do well in music now, it's got to be in all aspects of the business. And Live Nation is the risk-taker. It's leading the charge." ***

I wonder if this guy is pro-big-government. The idea that consolidating power is ever a good idea should have died with Rome.

Everything I've learned about branding (and by proxy, company management) in school says it's stupid to expand your services and product lines to assert yourself as a competitor or break into new markets. You tend to dilute your company's vision and create too big of an operation to manage well.

I bet the company's stock will keep plummeting. Clear Channel is just another big-media commercial-lifestyle pusher and quite frankly these people have had too much control over talent and the direction of art for a long time. They are the music industry version 2.0, just as bad as the record labels, but poised to take advantage of an opportunity that would give them similar or greater control.

This is it. I'm just straight up done with mainstream music. Seriously.

Re: Future of the Business of Music

This was a really cool article. It makes me wish I was rich and I knew madonna...

Re: Future of the Business of Music

hey xyz, where are you working at now? i tried to email you a little while ago and it bounced. are you still working in the industry? why did you leave your previous job?
-------------------------
i work for Kobalt Music which is world's #1 boutique music publisher with emphasis on administration deals (we rep The Hives, Raveonettes, Electrocute, Eminem's Catalogue, Moby, Dap Kings, LCD Soundsystem, Ming & FS, Koop and more and a grip of writers of have written/co-written for everyone from Sheryl Crow to 50 Cent). I am head the licensing department and i also do music pitching for video games and film trailers.

chris.lakey@kobaltmusic.com


[ mc.xyz - 7 Apr 2008 16:05 ]
[ mc.xyz - 7 Apr 2008 16:05 ]