forums : Jungle Scene

amens vs. 2-step???

whats your pick???

amens all the way...

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

any breaks other than that wack ass played out weak 2 step s**t.

i love the amen, but there are so many quality breaks out there that are just as good that never get used...

physe.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

3/4 time waltz's to f**k up the next dj's mix.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

amen is overused.

unless its with some nasty reese bass and some fruity female vocals.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

Amen!

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

Amen Brother

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

i like different things at different moments, but i can say that i have a soft spot in my heart for a crazy amen cut....produces quite a healthy flow of adrenaline

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

AMENS!!!!!!!!!! But drumz with tight BASS does it for me!!!!!

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

Long live AMEN BREAKS!!!!

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

How can you even compare the two? that's quite odd.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

if tis so odd...why do we have all these kids who dont know anything calling all that 2-step stuff jungle???

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

oh i c

[ edited by silly_paper_rabbit - 26 Jul 2002 12:44 ]

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

I prefer 2-step, have always liked that style... but whatever floats your boat.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

he's not talkin about 2 step the genre, rather about 2 step beats...ie anything on ram/virus...well pretty much most of the garbage you hear played out now...that wack kick snare kicksnare crap.

physe.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

you mean 2-step like most Ed Rush / Optical / Andy C / Aphrodite type songs ?

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

you got it.

:]

physe...

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

my whole thing is that im tired of all the places you can go to in LA that say they are about jungle, but all the tracks they play are 2-step and tech-step and all that other step stuff. if youre gonna be jungle, play jungle. and like you said, amens and 2-step arent even in the same category. this website is called junglescene, but all the "heads" that are on it only talk about all the djs who play the step stuff. whats going on here??? and the peoples who say they are down with jungle but dont like to hear ragga in a set unless its gonna be all ragga??? i dont know...

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

Well I've been listening to "jungle" since the early 90's before "2-step" as you call it, even existed. Back then, all tracks were amen jungle breaks.... it got played out.. around 1995, 2-step, hard-step, and tech-step started coming out, which introduced a simple 2-step beat but added alot more bass and atmospheric sounds and effects. I would say the 2-step stuff is "drum n bass" while the older amen stuff is "jungle"... They are completely different styles.. I prefer 2-step personally because amen breaks are played out in my opinion and start to hurt my head after a while... but like I said, whatever floats your boat... you shouldn't be calling a certain style wack or s**t, because they are all different... not everyone will like the same style.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

thats because dj's play stuff that's fresh. there isnt a whole heck of a lot of fresh ragga coming out. cry me a river.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

Simon Reynolds, who wrote the book "Generation Ecstasy", called the 2 step jungle term dirgefunk .

I call it: Dat dat, pause, dat dat....

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

Most of the newer stuff coming out on the big labels like RAM, Virus, etc. is 2 -step like he pointed out. Most of this music is geared for the dancefloor, not the oldschool hardcore jungle fanatic who has been listening to tunes since 1992...

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

how is a 2 step beat geared towards a dancefloor and an edited breakbeat not?

this music was founded on the breakbeats. people had no trouble dancing to an amen mash up years ago, why should there be a difference now?

physe.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

I say play whatever will make me dance please!!! and call it what you want!!!! hehehahahaa~~~

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

physe, if you look at England, where most of the production work is coming out of, you will see most of the new stuff is 2-step on labels like RAM Records, Virus, etc. These are the big labels which do big nightlies in London and most tracks are geared for the dancefloor. However, if you go back 6 or 7 years ago, then yes, it was breaks and amens... Styles change up and evolve just like any form of music.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

ok. since everyone just so happens to STILL be on the dicks of all the uk heads, there is something that you should know. the domestic s**t is taking over. and alot of the domestic s**t is newer ragga and all amens. but i could be wrong.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

xenocide,
i agree styles change, but in my opinion a 2 step beat is a devolution. it's destroyed a great genre...ever notice that all those big labels you mentioned are all puttin out tunes that sound exactly the same? when you pick up a virus or ram release you know exactly what to expect, the same 2 step loop used in almost every other recent release.

the glory days of jungle from 92-95, roughly, you had so many different sounds coming out, a ton of different breaks being used, there were hardly ever 2 tunes that were exactly the same beat wise. yes a lot of them were amens, but the edits were so different that it didn't matter. you had people like photek and source direct using all kinds of different breaks, and people had no problem dancing to the beats.

now a days if it's not a simple 2 step loop then it's not considered "dancefloor". this distinction between dancefloor tunes and non dancefloor tunes is what is helping to perpetuate the myth that a tune must have simple beats to be danceable, which you stated above...

physe.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

im pretty much down for both. amens sound the sickest on good systems tho.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

not really into the "2-step" genre for club listenin. kinda too soft

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

physe... I agree with you 100%

The Glory Days as you put it, were until about 1995 for the oldschool sounds..

Labels like RAM and Virus do all sound alike, BUT apparently this is what the dancefloor typical sound is rite now over in England. People like to dance to this simple beat.

Some people like really hard stuff like Panacea, some people like really light stuff... some people even like cheesy jump up tunes...

I think the point here is to acknowledge all different styles and come together as people who enjoy jungle and drum n' bass.. not try to point out what producers are weak and what styles are better...

I enjoy it all. Heck I'll even listen to a Panacea track (for a few minutes) hehe

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

get off of the uk cock

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

ITS ALL BOUT TUNA STEP BABY!

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

Domestic Amen Programming mixed with tech step drums??

Why not have both worlds??

http://www.junglevoodoo.com/audio/crazypeople1.m3u

Going for the overdose,.......

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

Tuna Step, now how do you beat that?

I think squarepusher produces tuna step!?

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

give me a f**king break

dont turn this into a uk vs us dnb war. its already lame enough witht his amen vs 2step nonsense. fact of the matter is that the 2step beat is nothing more than a chopped up amen .. 2 steps of it.

do you guys read what you're posting before you post?

" agree styles change, but in my opinion a 2 step beat is a devolution. it's destroyed a great genre...ever notice that all those big labels you mentioned are all puttin out tunes that sound exactly the same? when you pick up a virus or ram release you know exactly what to expect, the same 2 step loop used in almost every other recent release. "

jeez, what do you think amens are? the same amen loop used in every single release. oh yeah, add in some cheesy bass and maybe some recycled ragga samples, a horn or two and a gunshot and you have a generic jungle track.

beats do not define "dancefloor" calibre does plenty of "2step" beats however his s**t isnt dancefloor. for that matter, the hornet, probably one of the most cheese dancefloor anthems to forthcome has amens. a break does not define a style. sorry.

"get off of the uk cock"

no one said that uk dnb is better. you're the one milking domestic dnb. good music is good music, no matter where it comes from.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

xenocide-
i agree a blending of styles is key to a balanced scene, but unfortunately people don't seem to understand that this music isn't just made up of various styles which only use the 2 step beat, that there are tunes out there that use quality edited breakbeats, and which are completely danceable. i see a lot of dj's say they play a variety of styles, hard, jazzy, vocal, techy, but they all have the same exact beats. it's sad to hear sets that people say are varied, but which lack any variation in the beats at all.

it pisses me off when i go out, or download or stream a set and it's nothing but 2 step after 2 step with maybe one amen tune thrown in. that is dull. that's not variety.

where are the dj's who won't cater to the dancefloor myth? where are the dj's that have the balls to play just as many amen mash ups as 2 step tunes in a set?

when we see that as a norm we'll be on the way to a more unified scene.

physe...

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

stupid discussion....

beats are tools....two step is a break...its at 180 BPM if it works it works.....whats the difference???

I like good beats...not good genres..

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

reddup, I think your comments are a bit ignorant to say the least.

This isn't a UK vs USA battle. Nor is it a competition about what styles of jungle / drum n' bass are better

I've said this before... I like ALL styles and I enjoy all production work, regardless of where it comes from. (US, UK, Germany, Afghanistan, etc)

Everyone has personal preferences on what styles they enjoy more than others. If everyone listened to the same style, wouldn't it be boring ?

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

AND THATS WHY JUNGLE ROOMS HAVE DIFFERENT DJS A NIGHT. TO FULFILL EVERYONES NEEDS.

IM INTO THE TWO STEP. I LIKE MORE BASS THEN DRUMS.
KEMAL STYLE IS THE SHIT.
THE KIND OF BASS THAT THUMPS AGAINST YOUR CHEST.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

i dont want to discuss which is better. im more concerned with the knowledge-lack thereof-of these "heads" you call yourselves. you guys all think that just because its played in uk and its what you heard at the club last weekend its dope. no one really cares to go and find something to play besides what everyone else plays. and all of these heads say that they are heads when they dont even know the history. it just sounds good, but they dont even know why. you call this site jungle scene but the majority of the people on this site dont even know what jungle is anymore. and these djs that everyone praises...f**kin a!!! doesnt anyone believe that a dj is dope because of skill anymore??? who cares if they can blend a beat. its not that hard. and dont front, just because you say RAW doesnt mean that your down. RAW isnt anything that special. all djs should do more than just play records.

f**k!!! i hate ignorance.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

so long as its done the right way, the entrance of Any sound(amens, 2steps,bleeps etc.) can get your blood pumping. its all about the dj being able to harness and utilize this secret weapon.(think about standing in the middle of a huge system and hearing kloaking device for the first time, makes you want to explode)

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

and im not just talking about you guys that posted back. im speaking of the collective whole.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

reddup, in your opinion what DJ's are good and what producers are good ?

I'm tired of you bashing everyone in your post and saying how ignorant everyone is. You really have no respect for people do you ?

So what if someone wants to go to a club and enjoys hearing a RAM Records track ? Whats wrong with someone drinking a beer, dancing, and having fun ?? Come on man, lighten up a little bit with the elitest attitude... everyone is here to have fun and enjoy a positive attitude regardless of what style of music they prefer.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

if thats your attitude about things then we might as well be listening to trance...i take this music seriously, and to me its not just fun and games. this is what i do, its what ive been doing and its what im going to be doing for a long time. and the whole djs need to have skills thing...if you dont believe that then youve lost roots. this djing thing wass made possible by hiphop. and the day that it becomes ok for the hiphop community to say, "well we just want the djs to play the tunes we like and not worry about skratching and juggles and all that other stuff" is the day that i sell all my equipment and my record collection.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

serum nailed it. period. whatever gets your blood pumping and it should definitely be the dj's choice on what he thinks will do the trick... whatever style he needs to get the people on the dance floor moving-- there should be no limitation on music-- preference is preference

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

AMEN miss comedy....wait a
minute.......i mean 2step miss comedy......i mean ....fuuuuuck

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

i'm suuuuuper baked

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

The more and more I read reddup's posts the more and more I think he's R.A.W. for some reason. And I'll have to argue with you about the R.A.W. isn't anything special thing. Very few have skills of that guys calibre. He's a phenominal DJ and tears up everything he touches.

Anyways, I like it all. I do agree with you reddup about the domestic stuff begginning to surpass the UK stuff. This is the reason why guys like Polar and Stakka & Skynet moved to the US. Give it about another year and all the UK hedz will realize that we bring the sounds just as hard as they do.

2-step beats can get lame if they are like Alien Girl. I can't stand that tune anymore. It's just boom kak boomkak for 3 minutes then it turns to boom tik kak tiktik boomkak tik. Granted the bassline is pretty cool but I can't stand how repetitive it is. If a 2 step beat is totally mental and going off crazy style then that's tight because mental s**t kicks ass. There is no 2-step jungle with that I will agree. Anything 2-step fits under drum n bass.

Breaks though are very different. It's possible to have a breaky DnB track but not a 2-step jungle track. Take for example Arcon 2 - "The Beckoning". Break mashup supreme but it still SOUNDS like Drum n Bass. I love Amens just as much (if not more) as the next guy but I think diversity is the key. That's what I gun for in my live P.A.'s I run light breaky s**t (LTJ style) to harder breaky s**t (Arcon 2 style) to kinda tech driven two step (DSCI4 style) to evil killing amen tunes that rip everyone's head off (Tech Itch style). I don't really f**k with Ragga too much in production because I don't like doing remixes too much and I don't know any Ragga MC's to hook up the vocals. I do listen to it though (Sound Murderer kix ass like no other).

I think that the problem in the Drum n Bass scene is that there are too damn many DJs and they ALL play two step tunes. Not many are willing to take the risks of mixing a breaky tune. That's a shame too cause some of the best tunes are break driven.

Toward the point about 2-step being more dancefloor geared, it is because people who don't really understand the music are gonna get confused by it all and just go sit down. They just don't get it. Then again there are some people who defy the norm and understand the music and can take dancing to that level.

I don't know maybe if this conversation goes any further then I'll post more but for now I feel my opinion has been expressed.

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

thats mrs.comedy, dont make me raise up.......lol

Im with the Serum as well, thats why we like dj's so much, because we trust what they like to get us movin.....I even through squarpusher in my sets and you cant label that, I think you should put what sounds good, with what sounds better and hit em with it!

Re: amens vs. 2-step???

But then again I like psy trance too so go ahead and crucify me if you wish. I just like music.

[ edited by deceptikon - 26 Jul 2002 14:44 ]