forums : Jungle Scene

What exactly qualifies as "PAYING DUES" for respect in D&B?

I always read alot of the veterans talking about how they have paid thier dues, and I also read about rookies saying that they still need to pay thier dues...

Welp WHAT THE FAWK ARE DUES? IS IT A MEMBERSHIP FEE LIKE A BWLING TEAM? OR WHAT?

IT'S A WORD THATS USED OFTEN but rarely explored...that has alot of weight to it.....

LETS PLEASE HAVE A MIND BROADENING, MATURE, USEFUL THREAD ABOUT THIS, ITS IMPORTANT....

(FYI i'm not a complete idiot i've been around since 96 so I know what dues are, they can be different for some peeps betting on the circumstances, bbuuutttttt I thought this would be a good subject to cover cause alot of rookies out thier don't know how to go about PAYING DUES, and earning respect.....)


[ dj_dimas - 6 Aug 2003 14:08 ]
[ dj_dimas - 6 Aug 2003 14:06 ]

Re: What exactly qualifies as

Dues are what you pay after you get into the 143rd United Junglist Disc Jockeys Union, Los Angeles Chapter.

Don't worry, you pay on a sliding scale so its not too steep for new members, and it caps out so the headliner types don't overpay.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

If 'paying dues' means entirely different things to different people than something is wrong.

Last I checked paying dues meant consistantly putting something down time and time again... whether it be money, materials, ideas, products, or services rendered.


[ dey_one - 6 Aug 2003 14:20 ]
[ dey_one - 6 Aug 2003 14:18 ]

Re: What exactly qualifies as

Dues are all the sleepness night that i was out on the town promoting till dawn with my crew and trying to make are s**t something different then everyone else's. We were all about the music and our show now i dont know about anyone else but there has been countless favors iv'e done for people in the scene and they have done the same for me everybody who has been down knows each other very good and all of us know who really has paid dues.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

i think its all about going through the ups AND downs of the scene and supporting it and respecting the headz in it that made s**t possible for you to rock that s**t.

from scaling fences and roofs of fools houses just to get to a dope spot, to driving 4 hours just to have s**t be a bust.

comin up over years learning tha knowledge that all the headz before you learned.

going from buying some s**t rekkidz from denmark or some s**t at run down record stores and playin that s**t on your rubber band numark s**t---all tha way to rockin foolz headz with all tha latest dubz.

watching the great DJ's of our past come and go.

supporting this s**t no matter how hard, illegeal, s**tty, or rough it might get.

these are just some of my ideas i thought of...ive been partying since around 98 so im still payin mine huh.. lets hear from some headz that have been around ahwile...peace and respect

Re: What exactly qualifies as

In my opinion, it's just like anything else in life. You get what you put in.

Respect is EARNED not given in all walks of life. To pay your dues is to put in work. Successful individuals don't get to where they're at overnight. From corporate execs to highly respected/highly paid DJs. All of them have years of hard work and experience under their belt.

Paying your dues is a general statement acknowledging the fact that the individual has gone through "s**t" so to speak. From the "big time" promoter who has stood outside of clubs till 6am handing out flyers to the producer who finally gets signed after being rejected a million times.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

to me it means being an active part of whatever it is you want to be a part of.

First of all, support your local scene. If you don't go out and support the clubs and promoters, then why would they ever book you? Make yourself seen, be an active part of it all and things should come around for you.

Second of all, PRACTICE! No one wants to hear a dj wreck. Make a good cd, and give one to everyone you see. It might take a while, but even with the 1,547,523 DJ's in Southern California, good talent will always be recognized and appreciated.

edit - not directed at anyone in particular, just some advice to all.

[ themenace - 6 Aug 2003 14:25 ]

Re: What exactly qualifies as

To get respect. Show respect.

Work hard. Build your skills. Practice.

Play anywhere that will have you, for free! Don't expect to be paid anything in the beginning, and expect to be playing for free for a long time to come.

Make demos. Spend time on them. Make them perfect.

Go out. Talk to promoters. Show your face. Show you care. Show your support.

And no matter how hard you work, someone out there will call you a newbie and say you suck, and haven't paid your dues because they don't know who you are. Get used to it. Get over it. Keep moving forward.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

Welp i'll elaborate on what I meant about dues being different things to different peeps...

Dues come in many forms... Like other had mentioned..

Dues are the countless hours you spent helping out your favorite promoter pass out flyers for absolutely nothing...

Dues are bringing your sound systems to events for fawking free just to get a flippin opening slot..

Dues are going out on a regular basis and supporting your favrite clubs..

Dues are playing all the worst fawking slots for absolutely no pay and prolly like 2 people in the room listening to you...

Dues are putting in money to help out a up and comming promoter and not really worried about weather yuor gonna make it back or not..

Dues are offering services to the scene like photogrpahy and websites just for the mere pleasure of it...

Dues are also hosting a radio show every week for nothing...

Dues are putting in work and not expecting nor getting much or anythnig back for a very loooonnnngggg time..

Dues are getting stepped on or knocked down, or bridges burnt but you keep smiling and keep moving forward...

What else can be dues???

[ dj_dimas - 6 Aug 2003 14:44 ]
[ dj_dimas - 6 Aug 2003 14:42 ]

Re: What exactly qualifies as

There is a new dj or producer or promoter (more Dj's then anything else) born every 5.6798 minutes. Paying dues is what they have to go through to earn the respect of their peers and also respect within themselves. You can be the best dj in the world but if no one knows who you are you haven't paid your dues.

Paying dues is the blood sweat money time sleep and tears we all give up for this. Whatever "this" happens to be. Paying dues weeds out the people who are in it because it is trendy or cool and leaves the rest who have chosen it as a LIFE. Paying dues is too hard for people who don't have love to back it up.

Paying your dues isn't easy .. it is hard as f**k and discourageing. It depends on what you as an individual put into your craft. If you have 100% heartfelt love and devotion to it then paying your dues will come naturally .. it is just what you do. You go out because you want to, You dance because you can't help it, You talk to the people you need to because those are the people you relate to, You practice hard and long because it is fun, You spend every last dime you have on it because that is what your dayjob is there to support, You are respectful and thankful for those who have helped you because without them you couldn't do what you love, You return the favor because you WANT to. If you are half assed it will seem like drudgery work and you will piss and moan about it.

Too many people think that paying your dues means kissing ass to the right people or some bullcrap .. NO .. paying dues means that you have proven to EVERYONE that you are a credible part of your feild. You to not pay dues to the elite you pay dues to the masses.

Some people say that I have paid my dues .. to them I say .. NOT EVEN .. paying my dues has been what I have been doing for the last few years not because I see a light at the end of the tunnel or some ultimate goal that has to be attained .. it is just what I do .. I will always pay my dues because it is work and I love working for what I love .. I think there is always a higher level that you can attain and the only way you are going to get there is to keep consistantly doing what you do better then you did it before .. you have to be dedicated and wake up in the morning tired as f**k with no money and ringing in your ears to truely enjoy what this is .. LOVE

Re: What exactly qualifies as

Here's a good one..

No matter how big you get, your ego remains the same size...

Down to earth SUCCESSFUL people have paid mayud DUES...

Re: What exactly qualifies as

Melicious stated my definition beautifully. well said.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

according to TROX:
Melicious stated my definition beautifully. well said.
--------------------------------------

Girls' got alot of heart!!!

Re: What exactly qualifies as

ya'll got to give in this biz
I don't give a f**k who you are
who you iz

Re: What exactly qualifies as

dues..is called shutting up and taking it in the ass...

it means your ego must be smaller and occupy less room than anyone elses ego that has been around longer

Re: What exactly qualifies as

its getting down on your knees and sucking cock for dub plates...

I know thats what you wanted to hear Dimas.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

You such a slut largehuman LOL..

Re: What exactly qualifies as

~~~~~~~~~~~

its getting down on your knees and sucking cock for dub plates...
~~~~~~~~~~~

thats it.... Im out

Re: What exactly qualifies as

No wonder I have never pressed a dubplate.

My decks didn't come with kneepads

Re: What exactly qualifies as

oh I'm sorry you wanted a mature discussion...

Re: What exactly qualifies as

Hahaha yeah don't we get to read about enough cock sucking on Fnorg? *ahem*

Re: What exactly qualifies as

I think most people realize that was a joke...

however there are a few people who arn't laughing.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

its always better to laugh at largehuman then with largehuman LOL....

Re: What exactly qualifies as

leaving constant shows with no money and still be willing to do it again

Re: What exactly qualifies as

according to the seyrum:

leaving constant shows with no money and still be willing to do it again
----------------------------------------

are you talking about the D&B scene or a strip club? LOL

[ dj_dimas - 6 Aug 2003 15:57 ]

Re: What exactly qualifies as

***Melicious stated my definition beautifully. well said.***

agreed!

Re: What exactly qualifies as

ditto. melicious pretty much summed it all up.

i've never payed any dues.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

one thing though... there is a certain level attained after you pay your dues. Thats not to say there arn't always dues to pay. But there is something in the wisdom you attain by paying your dues that hopefully means you don't have to go thu it again. I think this relates to the mistakes you make, and learning from them. I do think there are certain things you gain other than just a kick in the teeth. I suppose theres a fine line between earning respect from people and doing enough to let people know you have somehting they want, but to say there arn't things you get like guest lists and drink tickets and other forms of love, is making oneself out to be a much bigger martyr than any of us are. But I've known people with that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow syndrome, that have never quite grasped the concept that it never gets easier, that...

"I don't know what they want from me.
Its like the more money we come across
the more problems we see"

Theres never going to be a do this and that will happen formula because lifes not fair, but the point of this whole thread is probably that there is a formula that goes...

If you don't do this then nothing will happen.

And I suppose thats what seperates the Bedroom DJs from the real DJs. After that theres a bunch of factors that seperates DJs but thats a whole nother thread entirely

Re: What exactly qualifies as

"paying dues" turned form work to how many people you can convince that you are cool.

its just music.

i swear.


benjie-
paying "dues" since birth.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

In the end do the dues paid......... pay off??

Do you get in return more then what you put in??

Is there a hight success rate.???

Re: What exactly qualifies as

the term "paying dues" is highly overrated...just due what you do!

Re: What exactly qualifies as

according to bnj:
its just music.
-----------------------------

Shure benjie its just music but it can't be heard if it just sits in your room on your PC.... You obviously put in work to get it out there...

Did you just sit on your behind and all of a sudden a call from japan came to book you out there? Hell no I know for damn shure you worked to get that gig..

So yeah its just music but it needs some footwork to get heard!!!

Re: What exactly qualifies as

according to mk ultra:
In the end do the dues paid......... pay off??

Do you get in return more then what you put in??

Is there a hight success rate.???
----------------------------------------

Yeah unfortunately paying dues does not always pay off... Luck is a big factor too..

Re: What exactly qualifies as

Does who you hang with(crew wise or socially) weigh in or account for more then dues paid????

Re: What exactly qualifies as

actually im usually on my ass, so yeah haha

i guess i came off kinda jerky up there, but i meant to say...

"paying dues", it seems, NOW, is more about social status than anything else. theres always going to be tons of people doing what they do, what drives them? i dont know,.. point is theyre doing it, and never get credit for it. why? no schmoozie schmooz. it sucks now, but eh, its full cycle i guess.

i guess teling someone to "pay their dues" is like telling someone "go try harder". which can be a good/bad thing.

i dont know, im rambling and i cant put my ideas in type. sorry

Re: What exactly qualifies as

Like I said it is not about kissing ass it is about showing the world what you are made of.

Hanging out with the "in crowd" to get ahead is not paying dues .. it is using people and riding coattails.

Fuck politix .. work harder.

[ melicious - 6 Aug 2003 17:18 ]

Re: What exactly qualifies as

paying dues is when i give promoters money to let me play their parties.
(The line above was a joke, amidst all this seriousness, that could be lost)

Oh, and busting my ass undendingly for years, that too...

origin =)

[ origin - 7 Aug 2003 17:45 ]

Re: What exactly qualifies as

the most important quote ever for determining success.

Luck is when preparedness meets oppourtunity.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

**********
According to dey_one ...

Last I checked paying dues meant consistantly putting something down time and time again... whether it be money, materials, ideas, products, or services rendered.
**********

YUP! I think it's about contributing back as much as you take. If you love the music a lot and want to make it better, you will put forth something. Whether it be music, dance, art, promotions, productions, or whatever else there may be. i think it's a really slow process though and some people try to do too much too fast. some say it's better to burn out than fade away but i don't think so when it comes to jungle, i'm in for the long haul

[ socaljungle.com - 6 Aug 2003 22:59 ]

Re: What exactly qualifies as

according to deacon:
I think I realize now most of all.
it isnt where your from
its where your at.
---------------------------------------

Aint that the damn truth!! As soon as you step off the train and get back on... its full of new people and new rules.....

Re: What exactly qualifies as

yes, melicious totally hit all areas.. if i could have put it into words, it would have been that

Re: What exactly qualifies as

I've been reading some of the posts and I thought I would add soemthing...

I notice theres as few people who think that smoozing and kissing ass arn't what paying dues is about...

WELL IT IS!!!

its not the only thing, but dealing with the other people invloved with what you want to be a part of is always going to be part of paying dues, and its always going to be one of the hardest parts, because it often means editing yourself or being civil when you wanna be gangster. Deacon points out that you have to be loyal to the people you work with till they give you reason not to. And I'll take it one step further and say sometimes you have to be "loyal" even after they give you reason not to be, because every party is a collaboration. And theres something implied by the term "paying your dues" that says its not all fun. Sometimes its the sweat of practicing, sometimes its the research you have to do to find the music you want to play, sometimes its going out when your tired and broke because you have to hand out flyers or you have to remind promoters you exist and they should book you. Sometimes its buying someone a drink so you can pitch them your idea that you want them to get behind and be a part of. Kissing Ass isn't anygood without working at your craft, but working at your craft won't get it done either. I've talked with a lot of DJs that practice all the time, and they're good at playing records, but I can tell you from a promoters experience... theres a lot of people who are good at playing records, but we're THROWING PARTIES (most of the time). The VIBE depends not only on the music being good but also on the faces being friendly and there being an overall warmth. The people behind the event have to be unified working towards one goal or the party suffers. And most of the time this comes from everybody involved comprimising themself somehow. Could be one dj taking a worse slot than someone he thinks doesn't deserve it. Could be alot of different things. But the point is, the social aspects are a big part of paying your dues, because we work at social events. So paying your dues is always going to consist of the hardwork elements like practicing, producing, walking the streets promoting, lugging gear, as well as the social elements like being nice to the people you want to work with, promoting yourself verbally, setting aside bulls**t for the common goal which is the party having a vibe that patrons want to be a part of. Alot of the time the social stuff can be as draining on me as carrying 150 lb. speaker cabinets. Much like practicing, you don't get good at the social aspects unless you get out there and do it. And theres a lot of people I know that have a harder time pushing themselves to do that then they do making themselves practice, or spending time in the studio.

So for the purpose of this particular post : Paying Dues = Facing the Aspects of the "job" that don't come easy.

Re: What exactly qualifies as

werd

This scene is all about oppurtunity, and how you take advantage of it.

I've been at it for almost 8 years now, and have had my share of obstacles that have totally demolished excellent oppurtunities. But I'm still here, and I think that is the true definition of paying dues. Persistence.

I've been through it all. I've been homeless, jobless, I started a family, I was on the verge of divorce, but through it all I kept working at it at some level hoping to break through the f**king barrier. Sometimes it seems as if it may happen, but then you all forget about me again, and I just become another face in the crowd. But I'll still be here tomorrow, giving out CD's of Live sets, (not "perfected cd's"), makin tunes that you all hear but think they are by other people, and chug chug chuggin along.

See ya'll in the crowd.

SUMO

Re: What exactly qualifies as

Well said....

I spend most of my energy into buying records and practicing...that's the only constant out there because people will come and go, use and abuse...but your records and your art will never leave you...

I am not shy about talking to djs, promoters, producers or the so called inner circle...mainly because these are the people showing dedication to the music..they are where I want to be....some I get along with some I don't....its never disingenuine....I have a big mouth and pretty much let people know how I feel about them...

anyways..I read what you said and it makes alot of sense...


**********
According to deaconone ...

Jake
I agree with you on some of the things you stated , but I also think your giving people too much credit.
Idealy things would work out if everyone worked hard and played by the rules, & then the true talent would rise to the top.
,but im not gonna be niave about people , & ambition & compromise.
first off it sucks when you feel like someone is only being cool with you or "ass kissing" because they feel they have this whole foot in the door attitude.
frankly it seems like most people with this attitude tend to be very obvious & it can be offensive. it also can create social anxiety, but hey occupational hazard i guess.
second, in my experience once you let your guard down & start being nice to everyone, you get takin advantage of.
promoters that know you, allways expect you to understand why they cant pay you or why you have to open, because its dj "somebodieslittlebrother"'s birthday or somes**t.
Im not trying to be disscouraging here im just trying to point out certain things, people should be aware of.
when your all mingled up with everybody you might think your constantly building this network, but your gonna get caugt up, in a bunch of bulls**t that has nothing to do with what your trying to accomplish.
you can get dragged down to thier level.
.
I understanding your saying, there is no reason to be abrasive with people you have to work with, but what do you do when people that kinda know you act like their all tight with you, or pretend they have some beef or spread rumors. just to look cool or make them look included or somthing.
.. or when you do meet somebody who is genuine, & that person grows on you, & then you help that person out & then they stab you in the back.
;
I also understand, taking responsibility for the parts of your job that are difficult, tedious or unrewarding, but where do you draw the line.
How can you be nice to someone that talks s**t on you, or just hates on you when they have never really even met you.
; I understand it, its human nature, jealousy all that s**t.
you have to work hard to promote yourself no doubt, but dont be fake or comprimise yourself in the process.
just some advice.
;
you dont wanna end up like me.
I really only leave my house for gigs or records.
now days im just tryin to do my job.
not make friends.
Ive got my own circle of people and I love them dearly. I dont need to be "mr scene" or play king of the hill any longer.
I have gigs, I dont need to make "demos" any more,
; besides your live sets should be as good as your so called perfected cd. if they are not then your fronting.
**********

Re: What exactly qualifies as

If you have gotten ahold of the my current "Live on Therapeutics" CD, then you would know that my live sets are better then most "perfected CD's".

Re: What exactly qualifies as

I am rocking that in my car right now
**********
According to sumo1 ...

If you have gotten ahold of the my current "Live on Therapeutics" CD, then you would know that my live sets are better then most "perfected CD's".
**********

Re: What exactly qualifies as

WOW!!!

Take note peeps this s**t on this here thread is what is learned through constant mistakes and downfall...

You never learn this s**t in school you play the field a little and get burned to learn this stuff...

Fawk i'm reading the trials and tribulations from some of our scenes veterans and I know they have been through alot of s**t to get where they are today...

Anyway i'm happy with how this thread is turning out and I think that this info if very valuable to anybody who wants to get thier foot in the door of any field really....

Like I had mentioned there are some disagreements about certain things from some peeps posting on here but thats just because there is different ways to go about things and people all have different goals so someones formula might not work for another...

Re: What exactly qualifies as

my only other thing to say about this:

If you are TRULY talented, and have something to offer music, your time will eventually come. it may not be what you expected, or even what you want (look at Kurt Cobain), but you will be recognized.

Most importantly, if you feel you aren't getting the props/slots/money/sex whatever you deserve, its because you aren't doing good enough, period. so make it better.

origin

Re: What exactly qualifies as

AMEN


I was going to write something but wanted to make sure it was simple yet effective and this man said it for me.


That is paying dues.

**********
According to deaconone ...

success is obtained through failure.
;
trial & error
;
I succeed because I fail & fail until I succeed.
**********

Re: What exactly qualifies as

^^your absolutely right.

and as far as the smoozing and ass kissing goes, if you can't back it up with something tangible than its worthless, and offensive, but so is being standoffish. Which is why the social stuff is part of paying dues, cuz it sucks and its wrought with all the peril Deacon just broke down for us.