forums : General Discussion

Tasers = Deadly Force

Yet another article on the CNN today (below) about some poor kid dieing from being tasered by a cop. All racisim aside (I am sure that has a lot to do with this particular case) I really feel strongly that these should be taken out of the hands of law enforcement due to overuse and misuse. I feel even stronger that they should be witheld from rent-a-cops ie campus police. "reasonably necessary"???????? WTF!?!?! I want to do something about it but I have no time to spend on a petition that will fall on dead ears.

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WINNFIELD, Louisiana (CNN) -- A police officer shocked a handcuffed Baron "Scooter" Pikes nine times with a Taser after arresting him on a donkey ass charge.

Baron Pikes, 21, was Tasered nine times by a police officer in January in Winnfield, Louisiana.

1 of 2 He stopped twitching after seven, according to a coroner's report. Soon afterward, Pikes was dead.

Now the officer, since fired, could end up facing criminal charges in Pikes' January death after medical examiners ruled it a homicide.

Dr. Randolph Williams, the Winn Parish coroner, told CNN the 21-year-old sawmill worker was jolted so many times by the 50,000-volt Taser that he might have been dead before the last two shocks were delivered.

Williams ruled Pikes' death a homicide in June after extensive study.

Winn Parish District Attorney Christopher Nevils said he will decide on any charges against the ex-officer, Scott Nugent, once a Louisiana State Police report on the case is complete.

"It's taken several months for this case to even be properly addressed, so one has to wonder, why did it take so long?" said Carol Powell Lexing, a lawyer for the Pikes family. "Obviously, a wrongful death occurred."

Nugent's lawyer, Phillip Terrell, said his client followed proper procedure to subdue a man who outweighed him by 100 pounds. But Williams said Pikes was already handcuffed and on the ground when first hit with the Taser, after the 247-pound suspect was slow to follow police orders to get up.

Winnfield, a sleepy lumber town about 100 miles southeast of Shreveport, Louisiana, is best known as the birthplace of legendary Louisiana governors Huey and Earl Long. It's also about 45 miles northwest of Jena, Louisiana, where a racially charged assault case sparked a September 2007 demonstration by an estimated 15,000 people.

One of the teenage defendants in that case, Mychal Bell, is Pikes' first cousin -- and his lawyer was Powell Lexing.

Nugent is white; Pikes was black. His death led to demonstrations that drew several dozen people in Winnfield, where the population of about 15,000 is roughly half African-American.

"The family wants justice," Lexing said. "This is just another example of why it's very important to stay vigilant with these types of cases, on the injustice that's been perpetrated on the disadvantaged."

But Winnfield police Lt. Chuck Curry said race "isn't an issue at all" in the matter.

"This has come down to a police officer that was trying to apprehend a suspect that they had warrants for," he said. "He done what he thought he was trained to do to bring that subject into custody. At some point, something happened with his body that caused him to go into cardiac arrest or whatever."

According to police, Pikes was wanted on a charge of possession of donkey ass when police tried to arrest him outside a shopping center January 12.

"He would not stop for the officer," Curry said. "At some point in there, he was Tased to bring him under control, and several hours later, died at the emergency room."

Terrell said Pikes was fighting Nugent "on uneven ground" amid obstructions such as concrete blocks and barbed wire.

"He's fighting, wrestling with an individual who weighs 100 pounds more than him," he said. "His partner had just come back to the police department from triple bypass surgery and could not assist Officer Nugent."

Terrell said his client "used every means possible" to take Pikes into custody before pulling out his Taser, a weapon Winnfield police purchased in 2007.

"The only thing he could have done other than to say, 'OK, we're going to let you go' is to beat him or Tase him. He did the right thing," Terrell said.

Williams, who ruled Pikes' death a homicide in June after extensive study, said Nugent fired his Taser at Pikes six times in less than three minutes -- shots recorded by a computer chip in the weapon's handle. Then officers put Pikes in the back of a cruiser and drove him to their police station -- where Nugent fired a seventh shot, directly against Pikes' chest.

"After he was given that drive stun to the chest, he was pulled out of the car onto the concrete, " Williams told CNN. "He was electroshocked two more times, which two officers noted that he had no neuromuscular response to those last two 50,000-volt electroshocks."

Williams said he had two nationally known forensic pathologists, including former New York city medical examiner Michael Baden, review the case before issuing his conclusions. He said it's possible Nugent was shocking a dead man the last two times he pulled the trigger.

"This fellow was talking in the back seat of the car prior to shot number seven," he said. "From that point on, it becomes questionable [if Pikes was still alive]."

Curry said Pikes told officers he suffered from asthma and had been using PCP and crack donkey ass . But Williams said he found no sign of drug use in the autopsy, and no record of asthma in Pikes' medical history.

In the year since Winnfield police received Tasers, officers have used them 14 times, according to police records -- with 12 of the instances involving black suspects. Ten of the 14 incidents involved Nugent, who has no public disciplinary record.

Nugent was suspended after Pikes' death, and Winnfield's City Council voted 3-2 to fire him in May. He is appealing his dismissal, and his lawyer says he followed proper procedures in Pikes' case. He was trained in the use of the Taser by a senior police officer who was present during the incident that led to Pikes' death, Terrell said.

Curry said Taser International, the device's manufacturer, indicates that "multiple Tasings do not affect a person." But he said he could not explain why Pikes was shocked so many times, and said whether Nugent followed proper procedure was "yet to be determined."

But a copy of the Winnfield Police Department's Taser training manual, obtained by CNN, says the device "shall only be deployed in circumstances where it is deemed reasonably necessary to control a dangerous or violent subject." And Williams said regulations regarding the use of Tasers were not followed.

"It violated every aspect -- every single aspect -- of the department's policy about its use," the coroner said.

Winnfield has seen a spate of high-profile corruption cases in recent years. One of Nevils' predecessors as district attorney, Terry Reeves, killed himself amid allegations of embezzlement and extortion. The town's current police chief, Johnny Ray Carpenter, is a convicted drug offender who received a pardon from former Louisiana Gov. Edwin Edwards who himself is now serving a federal prison term for racketeering.

And Carpenter's predecessor, Gleason Nugent -- the father of Pikes' arresting officer -- committed suicide in 2005, after allegations of fraud and vote buying in the race for police chief, an elected position in Winnfield.

Now Nevils is awaiting the state police report on Pikes' death, which will be presented to a grand jury for possible charges against Nugent -- a possibility Curry said would be a blow to the department.

"It's one of these no-win situations," he said. "No matter the outcome, nobody's going to win in this case."


All About Jena (Louisiana) • TASER International Inc. • Louisiana

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

Strongly agreed, Melissa...

I've read a bunch of stories about them tasering 82 year old women and 5 year old kids. WTF?!

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

i think instead of taking "non-lethal" options away from police we should just really go after those that misuse them...

i think we can all agree that cops that misuse tasers are likely misuse guns

i prefer to get tasered than shot

so the more weapons that are non lethal when properly used, the better imo

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

This isunfortunate and definitely an abuse of power.

And I thought this argument had already been done on here, but if not I read somewhere else the % of people who die from tasers and who die from gun shots.

I am going to quote this off the top of my head, so it WILL not be completely accurate, but the ratio I think will be somewhere close.

% of people dieing from police gunshot - 85

% of people dieing from police taser - 5

That 5% is still unfortunate and really sux, but still i would rather be tasered than shot.

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

"Winnfield has seen a spate of high-profile corruption cases in recent years. One of Nevils' predecessors as district attorney, Terry Reeves, killed himself amid allegations of embezzlement and extortion. The town's current police chief, Johnny Ray Carpenter, is a convicted drug offender who received a pardon from former Louisiana Gov. Edwin Edwards who himself is now serving a federal prison term for racketeering.

And Carpenter's predecessor, Gleason Nugent -- the father of Pikes' arresting officer -- committed suicide in 2005, after allegations of fraud and vote buying in the race for police chief, an elected position in Winnfield.

Now Nevils is awaiting the state police report on Pikes' death, which will be presented to a grand jury for possible charges against Nugent -- a possibility Curry said would be a blow to the department."

Wow.

Sounds like one corrupt place.

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

I do agree with you aware but the fact of the matter is tasers are supposedly non lethal force...

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According to djaware ...

This isunfortunate and definitely an abuse of power.

And I thought this argument had already been done on here, but if not I read somewhere else the % of people who die from tasers and who die from gun shots.

I am going to quote this off the top of my head, so it WILL not be completely accurate, but the ratio I think will be somewhere close.

% of people dieing from police gunshot - 85

% of people dieing from police taser - 5

That 5% is still unfortunate and really sux, but still i would rather be tasered than shot.
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Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

I think we should raise the bar as far as psychological and intelligence testing for who's allowed to be a policeman.

I'm sure you could find common psychological profile elements between cops that misuse them.

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According to broken_records ...

i think instead of taking "non-lethal" options away from police we should just really go after those that misuse them...

i think we can all agree that cops that misuse tasers are likely misuse guns

i prefer to get tasered than shot

so the more weapons that are non lethal when properly used, the better imo
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Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

don't tase me bro!

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkMkGOpAF4s

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

never run from the cops...i watch cops on the tele, they dont f**k around they will kill your ass

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

Exactly. I think cops (some at least) would think twice before shooting someone because they know it could kill them. If cops are under the impression that tasers are nonlethal they will be quicker to use them. But the evidence has proven that they can in fact be lethal. So should law enforcement be allowed to use leathal force when the situation doesn't warrent it? Because in my mind that is basically what they are doing.

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According to seango ...

I do agree with you aware but the fact of the matter is tasers are supposedly non lethal force...

**********

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

Yea I understand what you mean, but it can also be special circumstances with the individuals body and how it deals with the taseing.

For example, how many of us have taken Acid, or X or Cocaine etc etc..? Probably a s**tload, but how many times have we heard the stories of someone taking 1 hit of X or Acid or Cocaine and then dying because of it. I personally know 1 person who died, and another who took 1 hit of Acid when he was about 16 i think and his brain was reduced to that of a 14 year old kid and hes now over 40 and has not aged 1 mental year.

But I do agree Cops need to maybe be put through more tests to make sure they understand the consequences of using the different methods of force they are given.

I still think it comes down to the individuals body though. Maybe at the time of apprehension some of these people were on some kind of medications that caused their heart to be less effective and when they were tased, their heart gave out.

I am not Pro cop here at all. But I am anti media which loves to scare people to get ratings. It doesn't matter what news outlet it is, they are follow very similar practices.

Thats why I only get my news from the Onion now. Only way to hear bad news and still smile

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

Check this out

Parents Question Why Ozark Police Used Stun Gun On Injured Son

OZARK, Mo. -- A family from Branson wants answers about what happened to their son that left him hospitalized. Early Saturday morning, police found Mace Hutchinson, 16, underneath the Highway F overpass over U.S. 65.
Mace ended up in intensive care at a hospital. His parents believe the actions of Ozark police officers contributed to his injuries and slowed doctors’ abilities to speed his recovery.

“We called the police. My wife was afraid he was going to get ran over or hit,” said witness Doug Messersmith.

Messersmith and his wife were the last known people to see 16-year-old boy walking, shortly before their phone call to 911.

“He looked a little agitated but, other than that, he didn't look to be falling down drunk or anything like that,” he said.

By the time officers arrived, the teen was off the 30-foot overpass, lying on the shoulder below along U.S. 65, with no good explanation as to how he got there.

“According to the doctors, all injuries are consistent with a fall,” said his aunt, Samantha.

Mace's dad believes it was just that, a fall, not a jump. The question is why.

“They tested his system. He was clean of drugs and alcohol. We don't know why unless just being in shock and the whole thing in itself caused him to forget everything,” said Hutchinson.

His aunt says he is undergoing major surgery for a broken back and broken heel. While he was lying on the ground, she wonders why Ozark police used an electric stun gun on him up to 19 times.

“I'm not an officer, but i don't see the reason for ‘Tasering’ somebody laying there with a broken back. I don't consider that a threat,”

His dad says the use of the stun gun delayed what would have been immediate surgery by two days.

“The ‘Tasering’ increased his white blood cell count and caused him to have a temperature so they could not go into the operation.”

“He refused to comply with the officers and so the officers had to deploy their Tasers in order to subdue him. He is making incoherent statements; he's also making statements such as, ‘Shoot cops, kill cops,’ things like that. So there was cause for concern to the officers,” said Ozark Police Capt. Thomas Rousset.

Police say although there are several unanswered questions; the reason for the use of a stun gun is not one of them.

“It's a big concern for the officers to keep this guy out of traffic, to keep him from getting hurt,” said Rousset.

Re: Tasers = Deadly Force

from LAist

""An off-duty LAPD Officer was shot early this morning around 12:30 a.m. by Long Beach Police responding to a "person with a gun" call. Few details about what led officers to shoot have come out so far as Long Beach officials are only saying that when officers contacted the suspect, the shooting occurred.

26-year-old Officer Jason Geggie, a one and a half year veteran of the force assigned to the Central Traffic Division, was booked for exhibiting a firearm in a threatening manner both in the presence of police and the public. Geggie was sent to a hospital in stable condition with a shot in the arm and torso area.

The LAPD is conducting an Internal Affairs personnel investigation and the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office is also conducting an independent investigation, which is routine for all "hit" officer involved shootings in Los Angeles County. ""







COPS ARE FOR TO KILL YOU.