forums : Jungle Scene : Ragga

Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

can't we all just get along.
I like both.
I grew up th both.
Ragga has to conorm to a jungle format, so whats wrong with jungle?

And for the ragga haters.
whats wrong with ragga?
it hard jungle with jamaican sounding samples I know you junglist dig raggae...

It just doesn't make sence to hate on one another..

If its a pure elitism thing (dub plate culture)
you missed it guys, its the mp3/cd age...
dubs of both dnb and ragga are out dated relics of a world that no longer needs to exist.


wake up and smell the progress..

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

piston, i wonder the same thing. i think that (especially in la) a bit of division is encouraged. i don't like it one bit but that seems to be the way. and alot of times what music your are into depends on which circle you are in so if your friends like one thing and that group of non friends like somethign else....


i personally i LOVE ragga and old skool . then every once in a while i hear some tech s**t that blows my mind. so why throw a blanket statment "i hate techstep!"
just because most of it i don't care for?

human nature i guess in action?

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

i am a ragga head
but i respect and love music
we need to get over this bulls**t and come together
and if i can do anything about it this will happen
we are all the same fam and sometimes i think we forget where were comming from and where we need to go
everyone needs to get over the bulls**t and just have a good time
but piston u need to get over the dub thing
ragga is about roots and roots are the sound clash and the dub so ragga will allwas be about the dub
ppl who are too in2 the dubs are dumb u dont need dubs to spin u just need skills


one love
tal

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

its all comes down to the simple aspects of this music.. ragga and old school are my favorite sounds becuase they are simple and fresh. MASHED UP DRUMS and bouncy basslines with some reggae rythms as well. i dont really give a fuk who likes ragga and who doesnt cuz im keeping it alive by spinnng it and soon producing it. but personally i like this tech vs ragga. cuz im keeping the tru drums alive. not the techtrance2stepbass.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

in my eyes, tech and ragga are totally different. they don't sound remotely the same so its like asking me if i like rock or punk.

i like ragga, and i don't liek tech... i haven't really heard anything tech that blows my mind. the drums kill it for me.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I like both. I'll play both. I'll mix tech and ragga together sometimes. Theres tech with ragga samples theres ragga with tech noises. Classifications make it easier for idiots to think they know something about something. It helps them dellude themselves into a sense of empirical taste.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

preech mah brotha!!!!

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I love both,..i think it's the younger crowd that dislikes jungle and don't respect because they don't know there roots. correct me if i'm wrong.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

Some people like oranges while others like tangerines. They're both citrus, but they're not the same. Probly some hybrid orangines floating around someplace tho

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I'm newer than some to the jungle scene (since '99) and I have much more love for tha ragga sound personally - but I also like some techy stuff . . . I mostly listen to ragga-ish tracks - but then when I hear d&b tracks - it sounds refreshing. I like it all, basically, but I LOVE the ragga jungle sound.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

because if it dont got amenz its called junkle.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I dont know about you, but...

Ragga is the s**t
Tech is the s**t
Liquid Funk is the s**t
Hardstep is the s**t
Drum and Bass is the s**t
Jungle is the s**t
Ambient is the s**t
Jazzy is the s**t


(fill in the term) is the s**t

[ electrostatic - 26 Jul 2003 17:33 ]

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I agree about the dubplate thing to an extent. For the purposes of having a sound clash i think its part of the culture to have stuff on dub. The art of the forward is dependant on the ability to do it on vinyl and make it sound nasty! For me i play new tunes on CD as Im broke and dont really see myself clashing anyone. Im more of a selectah of music and vibe not a killer of sounds, in the clash perspective.

but thats just lil o me :0

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

i dont see the difference

one is the other

and its a good one

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

when i first started listening to jungle, tech was barely fresh on the scene... all i had back then was jump up, and ragga, and i loved it

bumpin kenny ken mixes, jumpin jack flash, dsl, ak 1200, nicky blackmarket, mickey finn, dara, odi, 187, darrin jay, krust, soul slinger, the list goes on!

what got me hooked on this music was 2 things: funk, and polyrhythmic drum patterns

tech step at one point had these 2 elements, but slowly lost them... tech step turned into distortion n bass, and i just wasnt feelin the changes... now its trancey, housey, and those type of elements just arent my thing

good tech step exists, so long as its funky....

the 'hate' you will get from someone like me stems from the fact that i was there when the music changed, so i guess im a bit jaded, hehe

without funk, you have no vibe, no soul, and tech step just doesnt have vibe anymore! anyone that wants to prove me wrong, i challenge you to do that.... until then, i will always talk a lil s**t about the repetitive trancey distortion known as tech step

peace!

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

are you saying that in order to duplicate the soundclash only ascitates must be present?

What about the element of forward thinking that was ever present in that era? I understand it as being about the latest technology, sounds and noises that were futuristic.

You would think that that would be embraced today, especially with all the technology that is popping up all across the world, not to mention the accesibillity to everday peeps like you and me. I think if the boys back then had access to what we have today they would have been experimenting with it as much if not more.

peace




**********
According to preecha ...

I agree about the dubplate thing to an extent. For the purposes of having a sound clash i think its part of the culture to have stuff on dub. The art of the forward is dependant on the ability to do it on vinyl and make it sound nasty! For me i play new tunes on CD as Im broke and dont really see myself clashing anyone. Im more of a selectah of music and vibe not a killer of sounds, in the clash perspective.

but thats just lil o me :0
**********


[ bootboy - 26 Jul 2003 20:34 ]
[ bootboy - 26 Jul 2003 20:30 ]

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

You cant reproduce the girttyness of the forwards/rewinds that are done at clashes, with CDs. You can try but I will give more points to the one using the dubs, ONLY because they can do more with the vinyl then the CD. Otherwise i dont care.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

edited for lack of appropriate words

[ bootboy - 26 Jul 2003 21:46 ]

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

i think it depends on how you look at it.

for a lot of producers who are into tech, the technical aspect of ragga is just not appealing because there aren't enough layers to the actual production effort involved in making a ragga track.

similar on the other side of the board, for different reasons; ragga heads in particular and old skool heads in general seem more into the "classic" elements of drum and bass and jungle and feel that abstract production technique and theory bastardize the primary concepts, thus removing the music from the "roots".

to the outsider, the non-producer, the partiers, either style could move them. or at least make them nod their heads. then, it's preference.

it's just based on people's personal tastes, really. personally though i think it's good to embrace drum and bass as a whole and appreciate that each style is valid for its own reason... and what better reason do you need than that people think it's good?

there are different things to appreciate about different styles, no matter what anyone on either side says. house and trance and reggae and whatever the f**k else can appear in drum and bass tunes and it can work on the dancefloor and sound good AND be more worthwhile than a stupid two-week dancefloor smasher people forget about as soon as it's released.

that's what keeps drum and bass pushing the envelope.

DIVERSITY.

sectioning yourself off from any part of it is a detriment to the culture.

which is, of course, not to say one should deny one's tastes.

but don't condemn. because elitism is harmful... not helpful. and all this segregation and s**t-talking between different "style cliques" is ultimately just a bunch of worthless rhetoric anyway, isn't it?

< /rant>

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I like records.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

i like both :P .....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

im into all styles. how can u just pick one? its all to the good.


boh!

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

yeah ..wha source1st said!!!!!!!! hehe



**********
According to source1st ...

im into all styles. how can u just pick one? its all to the good.


boh!
**********

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

me likey bof o' dem...

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I LOVE RAGGA


RESPECT ALL MUSIC

but s**t i started with techno 91 so everything is good because its been good to me if u been threw it since the start u know what im talking about


LOVE ALL MUSIC

MUSIC WE LOVE U

james brown is dead

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

^^^^^hahahaahahahah^^^^^


i love it all baby!!

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

Waht they said...you can produce technicly advanced ragga or old school type techy s**t as well...I'm into drums any kind as long as there good. one of the things dnb heads hate is the constant amen...it's one of my fav. breaks but all the time is well a little borring...i try not to use amens much.
and yes funk is a MUST! I'm not really into distortion but thats my taste if it's got the drums then I'll like it enough.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

i don't think old skool is techy on the level that tech drum and bass is produced today - and in fact the only techy ragga i've heard for a long time is what was released on crunk vinyl...

Crunk proved that the fusion of tech and ragga was not only achievable, but that it could sound good and move the floor (walk with your friends ROCKED it when it was released)...

...but the majority of the ragga heads i talk to hate tech or techy sounds and the twostep beat pattern... and are just into the amen... for reasons i will never understand.

mashup ragga is good in it's own right. but it reminds me a bit of "acid" techno or "acid" house or whatever. like... when the subgenre is based solely around a TYPE of sound, rather than an overall feel. granted the ragga vocals contribute more to the feel of the subgenre than the mashup-style drums, but mashup has almost become synonymous with ragga and anything else would make it less interesting to the mashup ragga heads...

at one point i seriously loved ragga and i still have a pretty decent collection... but it's all the same sounds, all the time... i guess i just got bored.

as an endnote... i don't get why people hate twostep beat patterns. that's all most breaks are, anyway. it's just that someone else played them so you don't have to dick around and figure out what sounds to use if you're writing a beat. technically, you don't even need to write a new pattern if you use breaks. (although you should).

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

are you saying that in order to duplicate the soundclash only ascitates must be present?

What about the element of forward thinking that was ever present in that era? I understand it as being about the latest technology, sounds and noises that were futuristic.

You would think that that would be embraced today, especially with all the technology that is popping up all across the world, not to mention the accesibillity to everday peeps like you and me. I think if the boys back then had access to what we have today they would have been experimenting with it as much if not more.

peace
*****************************

you would get laughed off the stage if you threw a soundclash and had CD players up there....lol Its no disrepsect at all to the poster, I know Danny knows his s**t. But Soundclashes are something that a lot of people think they know about but have no idea. Gorrilla WarFare was close, but it still was not a legit soundclash as they followed non of the rules and had no juggling. To each his own, but if we are going to emrace the Reggae culture in our music, we had better get our knowledge up to par, cause we seem to be half assing it right now and there are some around the country who are laughing at us......

Trilogy Sound knows whats up with True clashes, check thier home page for MP3 archives.

As for the Ragga tech thing.....we will always have people who want division....we will always have people who want it all under one roof. I say, just support what ya like...make what ya like, and spin what ya like....Period. I make Ragga and tech and have no plans of stopping either.....

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

great topic-

in the past 6-9 months i've really found myself really drawn to ragga...i enjoy the samples, and the 'struggle' that is often the theme of so many tunes...

it's not that i have so much of a dislike for the dnb as it is that the d.j.'s who i really enjoy seem to be getting deeper and deeper into the ragga sound...i also feel that the current state of world politics and the messages that ragga gives go hand in hand...

from r.a.w.'s drop mixed cd

'it is a war between good and evil,
it is a war between right and wrong
war,war,war,war"

this is what speaks to me today, right now...that and the phat beats that ragga producers make just keep me happy as a clam

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

**************************
I dont know about you, but...

Ragga is the s**t
Tech is the s**t
Liquid Funk is the s**t
Hardstep is the s**t
Drum and Bass is the s**t
Jungle is the s**t
Ambient is the s**t
Jazzy is the s**t


(fill in the term) is the s**t
**************************

Right on Brother.
I like all these styles, cause I truly like jungle/drum n bass.

I also agree that Crunk's "Walk With Your Friends" was a truly brilliant fusing of subgenres.


on another note~ they are both the same thing. Jungle was the original term used by the producers of the emerging genre, and people/press added the synonym drum & bass because they were uncomfortable with the term jungle music because they thought it sounded racist, or crude.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I have a few questions for those that are really in tune with the soundclash culture...*Has there ever been any REAL soundclashes is LA? *If so were they ragga-jungle?
*Would a tool such as the final scratch ever be excepted? *If not, why?* If this were the era of soundclashes either in Jamaica or the UK do you think that people like king tubby or the scientist would have been down with the newer technology, or would they just want to be "roots"?



by the way I'm stoked that most of the people that replied are down with both..

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I am down with both....

while I see tech as progressive I see Ragga as retro...and unfortunately there is alot fronting coming from the Ragga camps....

I think that the whole N20 vs POTD debacle is evidence enough that Ragga "fans(read those that only listen to ragga)" are a bunch of thuggish xenophobes that think you are soft if you listen to Bad Company.....so I am down with Ragga just not the pseudo gangsta element that it seems to attract

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

an la clash would be fun, someone organize it! and amke sure im in it haha ; )

man oscar would be really busy a few days before.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

you know your fresh when you can incorporate both elements and come up with one BOMB ASS SOUND. *pats self on back*

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

**********************
broken_records wrote:

I am down with both....

while I see tech as progressive I see Ragga as retro...and unfortunately there is alot fronting coming from the Ragga camps....

I think that the whole N20 vs POTD debacle is evidence enough that Ragga "fans(read those that only listen to ragga)" are a bunch of thuggish xenophobes that think you are soft if you listen to Bad Company.....so I am down with Ragga just not the pseudo gangsta element that it seems to attract
****************************

only one ragga camp is talking s**t and thats n2o
and from that camp i think only one person is talking s**t ;p


and you wrote:
so I am down with Ragga just not the pseudo gangsta element that it seems to attract

thats just not true and never was in the us as far as i know
some people in this scene want to talk s**t and divide
but they are few
but a few ppl with big mouths
make them selves seem like many !!


this is the year
tal

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

"so I am down with Ragga just not the pseudo gangsta element that it seems to attract"
******************************

no disrespect intended but I have never met any Ragga Dj or producer that in any way resembels a gangsta. Infact most are tree hugging hippie vegans! (ha ha ha, the exact opposite) But hey, if you could just point one out to me, then I would leave this topic alone........

are you guys confusing "attitude" with confidence and stage presance? Cause thats what it seems like??

There shouldnt even be a discussion in regards to why Ragga heads dislike Tech, cause that just doesnt exist. Ragga heads are just trying to make their own mark with something that died out for a while and should not have. Tech heads are the ones that are feeling threatened and are throwing all the hate around, calling ragga heads gangsters and s**t. This is so funny to me......

All the Ragga producers and dj's that I kick it with are just worried that they can get booked still with all the "Top 40" aka Tech that has been running the local shows.

Now to take this a step further:
The promoters are totaly ignoring what is happening at the shows, and you just cant do that! Gorilla Warfare, JungleMashin, these two parties went off, and when I say went off I mean way beyond any other DNB party in the area, PERIOD! The crowd was more hyped then a Punk show on steriods. But what happens when you book big Tech talent? You get Trainspotters that A. think they are better so they sit and mad dog, or B. Are in a loq'd out position just bobbin their head.....If the promoters noticed the change, and acutally looked into the crowd during the show instead of their pockets they would notice fans jumping off the ceiling for djs like Tester, TwinHooker, General Malice, the Q, etc etc......................but they are too busy trying to get their head out of tehe ass of whatever talent the flew in for the party.

[ relentless - 29 Jul 2003 13:18 ]

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

*throws up a "J" "R"* wassup now homie?

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

dave you are a ragga head I do not think you are a gangsta....I retract my statement....

but I do beleive that everytime a ragga vs. tech discussion comes up...some ragga fan says I hate the f**king uk dickrider s**t... um so whatever...I understand that you may turn your head the other way when you hear that s**t because you love ragga...but I don't....

I am a music lover...raised on all different types of music...the first jungle i ever listened to was Ragga and lots of it....

but come on lets be honest...alot of LA ragga fans protect their music by talking s**t about others music...maybe its a hip hop ting? I dunno...I call it as I see it...I am trying to be honest and I am not dissing the music
**********
According to relentless ...

"so I am down with Ragga just not the pseudo gangsta element that it seems to attract"
******************************

no disrespect intended but I have never met any Ragga Dj or producer that in any way resembels a gangsta. Infact most are tree hugging hippie vegans! (ha ha ha, the exact opposite) But hey, if you could just point one out to me, then I would leave this topic alone........

are you guys confusing "attitude" with confidence and stage presance? Cause thats what it seems like??

There shouldnt even be a discussion in regards to why Ragga heads dislike Tech, cause that just doesnt exist. Ragga heads are just trying to make their own mark with something that died out for a while and should not have. Tech heads are the ones that are feeling threatened and are throwing all the hate around, calling ragga heads gangsters and s**t. This is so funny to me......

All the Ragga producers and dj's that I kick it with are just worried that they can get booked still with all the "Top 40" aka Tech that has been running the local shows. Notice I didnt say the fans liked it better, at this point, its just the promoters that like it better, and that is changing by the minute.
**********

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

ragga was sooo 1993...

its dead and its the lowest form of music...

dont lower your standards...

and they still sport camoflauge? lol...

[ applejacksoff - 29 Jul 2003 13:20 ]

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

**********************
but I do beleive that everytime a ragga vs. tech discussion comes up...some ragga fan says I hate the f**king uk dickrider s**t... um so whatever...I understand that you may turn your head the other way when you hear that s**t because you love ragga...but I don't....
**********************

I would just like to interrupt and say that even people who love tech say that. It's not only ragga heads.

that's all.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

Ricardo, I see your point and agree with your words, but that happens on both sides of the fence and its not the talent thats doing it, its the fans, and that is sad...........

God I love you Apple.........so ignorant. I wish I could be that blessed to have such a simple mind. Sings..." all you need is hate, dum da dum de dum, all you need is hate, hate, hate is all you need!"

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

the promoters are shy to book an all ragga event for obvious reasons.......


TAGGING!!!!
AND BAD ATITUDES!!!!



PERIOD...



I love the hype element of ragga jungle and the constant change ups but when I plan an event I have to take into consideration all of the elements....its hard enough getting venues because of the negative connotations that DnB brings to the table as is.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

uk dickrider? s**t if thats the case everyone is a dickrider... since that s**t blew up first uk ragga or not.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

yea ragga people swear up and down they are thuggs

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

Danny, let me first say that I always love your events and you put a lot of thought into them. But you are promoting to a different crowd. I understand why you dont promote Ragga shows in those venues, I do. But this is directed at promoters who do have "underground" venues or venues that can handle that vibe, and are ignorning it. Are we to let that part of the genre die again because some fans are out of line? Or are we to be more selective of who we let into the events, ya know? If taggin happened at my event, I would blame security for not being on point.....

[ relentless - 29 Jul 2003 13:31 ]

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

i think we were trying to have a constructive discussion with the free exchange of ideas....

your statement reflects the fact that you don't listen to enough music
**********
According to applejacksoff ...

ragga was sooo 1993...

its dead and its the lowest form of music...

dont lower your standards...

and they still sport camoflauge? lol...

**********

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

I'm hearing such rationalizations here...



Jungle mashin was a ragga show and was one of the best shows I've been to yet.

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

Relentless just dropped knowledge.

Everybody I know pushing ragga does it with an appreciation for the roots that come along with it. There is a culture that RAGGA represents, that HIPHOP represents, that the drum&bass melting pot cannot emmediately reference.

[ dey_one - 29 Jul 2003 13:33 ]

Re: Why do Ragga heads dislike dnb so much and vice-versa

lol i dont listen to enough music?

im on soulseek 24. 7 and i got hds full of s**t you never heard of, yea f**k your records i get my s**t for free...