forums : Jungle Scene : Hip-Hop

Jay-Z

Best rapper ever, period no questions. No disrespect to Nas, KRS1, Rakim, Big, Pac...but 10 #1 debuting albums (he ties Elvis and The Beatles with that), another classic album with American Gangster, commercial success, street credibility (meanging getz love from backpackers to underground cats, sneaker heads...not meaning he kills people), lyrics that are some of the most ridiculous ever, a catalogue of songs that is damn near unprecedented, sold out MSG, his ticket prices for his tour are going for like $600-$900...


JAY-Z is GOD MC!!!!!!!!


"Hov's a living legend / And I'll tell you why / Everyone want to be Hov / And Hov still alive" - Jay-Z

[ mc.xyz - 8 Nov 2007 08:58 ]

Re: Jay-Z

you slay me....

Re: Jay-Z

sorry it is just my opinion. imo hip hop is the only musical artform where proper people don't get their respects unless they die (unless ur name is Big L who imo was lyrically better then BIG). he isn't my fav. mc (mos def) or even my second fav. but i recognize that overall he is the best (commercial to underground to concerts to #1 albums, to #1 singles to lyrical content, punchlines, storytelling), idk...

Re: Jay-Z

Such a talented artist, but uh oh:
God complex... hey it happens.

Catch Jay-Z tonite on VH1 storytellers.
Wonder if he's gonna talk about screwing over Kanye or why so many Rap artists claim their Christian only to brag about riches, drug dealing, murder, adultery and commit BIG time idolatry.
This goes for Kanye too - take that Jesus piece off and pick up the book son.

Any thoughts Chris?

Re: Jay-Z

not bad for someone that's retired

Re: Jay-Z

Devastatin' Dave.

Zip Zap Rap.


Now that is the best rapper of all time!

Re: Jay-Z

PS - I'd take Pac or Biggie over Jay-Z anyday, but unfortunately they dead... so they can't keep releasin' new albums like Jay-Z, oh wait.......

Re: Jay-Z

again it is just my opinion. Honestly Pac was dope as hell, but he wasn't as clever with lyrics and wordplay as Jay (and to me Jay has sentimental songs like Pac) which is y he wasn't in J's league imo. And Biggie (as great as he was) only had one classic album imo. Love Biggie, but like Nas (as great as Nas is) only had 1 classic album. IMO J had 3 (Resonable Doubt, Blueprint, American Gangster with The Black Album coming close). I am a big fan of Nas, Big and Pac but imo they just are a step behind.

Who one likes is opinion, BUT tying The Beatles and Elvis for most debuting #1 albums, fact, millions of albums sold, fact, selling out MSG, fact, Grammys, fact, an extensive catalog of songs, fact. idk opinions are opinions, but facts don't lie *shrugs*. There are better pure mcs then Jay (like Lupe Fiasco, Nas, Mos), better marketers/showmen then J (50, Kanye), better "conscious" mcs (krs1, ice cube, mos), but over all he getz the crown in my book~

------------------


We ain't thugs for the sake of just being thugs
Nobody do dat where we grew at, nigga, DUH!
The poverty line, we not above
So out come the mask and glove cause we ain't feelin' the love
We ain't doing crime for the sake of doing crime
We movin' dimes cause we ain't doin' fine
One out of three of us is locked up doing time
You know what that type of s**t can do to a nigga mind?
My mind on my money, money on my mind
If you owe me ten dollars, you ain't giving me nine
Ya'll ain't give me 40 acres and a mule
So i got my Glock 40, now i'm cool
And if Al Sharpton is speaking for me
Somebody get him the word and tell him i don't approve
Tell him i'll remove the curses
If you tell me our schools gon' be perfect
When Jena 6 don't exist
Tell him THAT's when i'll stop saying bitch---BIIITCH!



also hip hop is all about the God complex. every rapper thinks they are the best...idk just my opinion.

Re: Jay-Z

wait, you are counting the American Gangster album as classic? It just came out. ???

Jay-Z is the most successful rapper.
I agree.

Best? ehh.... He's up there somewhere. =]

Re: Jay-Z

PS - the only way to settle this score is over a game of darts!!!

Re: Jay-Z

The best M.C. is the one having the most fun...

Re: Jay-Z

**********
According to djwhizard ...

Devastatin' Dave.

Zip Zap Rap.


Now that is the best rapper of all time!
**********

The Turntable Slave - lol.

Re: Jay-Z

**********
According to mc.xyz ...

also hip hop is all about the God complex. every rapper thinks they are the best...idk just my opinion.
**********
C'mon Chris we need more than that - you called Jay-Z GOD MC!!!

here's some lyrics that represent hip hop and dnb mcing in a more pure form:
"I love life - this is as good as it gets,
I'm not the BEST I'm just GOOD like the rest." - Werd MC fromt he tune 'BEST MC'
Those there are some cool lyrics that dont lead into ego-mania..

Yes Chris it seems true that acting like a GOD (Jay Z) sells records these days and being fun, socially aware and meaningful (De La Soul, Arrested Development, Beastie Boys etc.) does not, for now.

BIG up to Jay-Z for his many contributions to charity organizations and going to Afrika to build merry go wells for townships that desparately need simple like water and food. These are things to be admired, but just remember you can't buy your way into heaven.

Re: Jay-Z

I concur, we shall battle at dusk

PS

I'd like to start a tally board for how many times Chris has said "idk... just my opinion" on Junglescene.com lol

dating back to 99... ima guess its NASA figures by now

lol
**********
According to djwhizard ...

PS - the only way to settle this score is over a game of darts!!!
**********

Re: Jay-Z

Re: Jay-Z

lol
Jay-Z is great without a doubt

but no one is the best
if anything,
BIGGIE & TUPAC were the best

but then you have white boy rap too, like atmosphere... which gives me hope!
lol

Re: Jay-Z

everybody biting the godz a day late

Re: Jay-Z

oh, and the term "backpackers" --- nobody says that term as much as xyz...

"Grandma, who could you have texted x amount of times"
"idk - my bff rose"
I can't hear that phone commercial without thinking about xyz. haha

**********
According to take_me_back_to_la ...

I concur, we shall battle at dusk

PS

I'd like to start a tally board for how many times Chris has said "idk... just my opinion" on Junglescene.com lol

dating back to 99... ima guess its NASA figures by now

lol
**********
According to djwhizard ...

PS - the only way to settle this score is over a game of darts!!!
**********
**********

[ djwhizard - 8 Nov 2007 12:43 ]

Re: Jay-Z

no

Re: Jay-Z

i know saying "imo" is redundant and horrible writing (see when Bush speaks he always says "I think" or "I feel"...terrible speech writing, we know how u feel, DUH u are saying it)...anyways...
-------

well okay i think he is the best rapper to ever live via my own warped criteria (which is an overall view).

*Jay-Z best freestyler...no (Juice or Supernat)
*Jay-Z best consistent hit maker...yes
*Jay-Z best conceptually...no (maybe Nas)
*Jay-Z best 'conscious'...probably not, but most of his conscious s**t imo goes over peeps headz.
*Jay-Z cleveriest lyricist...(imo Lupe is, but Jay is ridiculous in his own right)

however imo Jordan is the best NBA player ever, didn't have the best jumper, handles, assist totals, even Wilt was arguably the most dominate, but player all around Jordan was the best

American Gangster did just come out, but it is a classic album (i don't see classic having to be only labeled so after a "waiting period")...and i love Pac and Big, but cmon u get more props when u die unfortunately. Pac i can see but how can BIG with 1 great album be as great as Jay-Z? Mos Def is my favorite rapper, but i think he has ways to go to reach J cause he doesn't have catalogue...consistency and with history to build ur legacy. now Pac on the other hand is still droppin' albums...

-------------


I ain't never scared
I'm everywhere
You ain't never there
Nigga why would i ever care
Pound for pound i'm the best to ever come around here
Excluding nobody
Look what i embody
The soul of a hustler i really ran the street
A CEO's mind
That marketing plan was me
And no i ain't get shot up a whole bunch of times
Or make up s**t in a whole bunch of lines
And i ain't animated, like say a, Busta Rhymes
But the real s**t you get when you bust down my lines
Add that to the fact i went plat a bunch of times
Times that by my influence
On pop culutre
I supposed to be number one on everybodys list
We'll see what happens when i no longer exist
Fuck this...

Re: Jay-Z

G.O.A.T.

not really worth discussing on a jungle message board though ahahaha.

i love going on okayplayer .com and reading the discussions on if Jay-Z is the best or not.


He does have 9 #1 hip hop albums though does Tupac or Biggie? nope
now if they were alive maybe id give them a chance. But damn people gotta stop giving rappers martydom status

Jay-Z is such a heady rapper, and DESPITE that he can sell millions.

Even underground mcees recognize how sick the man is!!


Swagger...check

Lyrics...check

Sales...check

Respect by your Peers...check

Imitated often?...check

Classic Albums (plural!!)...
check

So funny that people still will not give him the title.

Nas is dope but he hasnt accomplished what Jay has. not too mention he SELF ADMITTEDLY broke his integrity when he attempted to change his style from being illmatic to jumping on tracks with puffy, ill never forget that s**t

Rakim is dope but he wont ever do what Jay has done

Biggie. Two dope albums (I prefer the first), but hes dead and he cant show up to compete

Tupac. dope as well but his sound has been watered down by the s**tload of releases put out by his mother and Suge Knight. the mans legacy has been somewhat tarnished

LL COOL J seriously dont make me laugh....


Talent, Execution, and Consistency on a high level. Really. Who can touch the JAY-HOVA man!!!!

Re: Jay-Z

funny how people measure "record sales" as a marker on how good someone is...

*money does not = talented M.C.

turn off your Mtv

Re: Jay-Z

nm

[ canoe134 - 8 Nov 2007 17:59 ]

Re: Jay-Z

JAY Z ripped the House of Blues down to the ground on Tuesday night...
one of the best hiphop shows I've seen in awhile.

The man has mad stage presence and didnt even break a sweat his whole performance (trust me, it gets HOT on that stage)...
a true professional to say the least.

Is he the best?? I don't really care.
IMO, he has undoubtedly made his mark as one of the greatest rappers of all time.

I enjoy his music and respect his decisions as an artist and businessman, period.

I haven't heard the AMERICAN GANGSTER LP yet except the few songs he performed this week at H.O.B. but based on those,
I am def buying that album this weekend.

[ machete - 8 Nov 2007 19:24 ]

Re: Jay-Z

if you cant judge by record sales, then what do you judge by? if we judged by everyones opinion, then we would have the same argument we do here when we ask what LA MC we love so much.

if your s**ts good, it will sell. he has to be doing something right....i mean.. 9 #1's...

he is doing what he gets paid to do. give music to the people. if the people didn't want it, they wouldn't buy it.

do i think hes the best? i personally don't pay attention to commercial hip hop, but i do think that J has definitely made his own moves, and made everything for himself..

rap is a business whether you want to think so or not. when you dj, you dj because you want people to hear you.. he does what he needs to do to make sure that people hear him..

main stream is main stream for a reason..
ive never understood why people always do the underground/mainstream thing..

Re: Jay-Z

You judge it by how it makes you feel... like I said before, the best m.c. is the one having the most fun. So what if he has 9 number one hits? He just has alot of money/corporate backing.... plus he is a BITER not a WRITER, haha. youtube it


**********
According to thedope1theycallunit ...

if you cant judge by record sales, then what do you judge by? if we judged by everyones opinion, then we would have the same argument we do here when we ask what LA MC we love so much.

if your s**ts good, it will sell. he has to be doing something right....i mean.. 9 #1's...

he is doing what he gets paid to do. give music to the people. if the people didn't want it, they wouldn't buy it.

do i think hes the best? i personally don't pay attention to commercial hip hop, but i do think that J has definitely made his own moves, and made everything for himself..

rap is a business whether you want to think so or not. when you dj, you dj because you want people to hear you.. he does what he needs to do to make sure that people hear him..

main stream is main stream for a reason..
ive never understood why people always do the underground/mainstream thing..
**********

Re: Jay-Z

you know, this post made me look some stuff up on line... that Cam'Ron s**ts kind of funny... mosdef some bitten s**t in there.

but then again, E-40 was doing the shizzel slang before snoop... but everyone assumes snoop made that up and he's not called a biter. seems like A LOT of rappers bit rhymes... but when your at the top your gonna have haters. I'm not a fan of Jay-Z, I don't hate the man..... just not my style.

the Rick Ruben s**t was dope

but that "hands up and wave" s**t made me wanna gouge my ears out...

haven't checked the new album yet

Re: Jay-Z

the are broadcasting the entire album on sirius 40 right now and Jay is explaining the thoughts behind each of the tunes..

Re: Jay-Z

Haha. That is crazy talk.

At one point in time, Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer equalled 50+ % of all rap sales. Did that mean they were better rappers than everyone else? NO! I'm not gonna put them down, but their incredible record sales figures didn't mean they were better rappers than everyone else.

Fuck, Milli Vanilli sold millions of records and they didn't even sing on the f**kin' album.

It is definitely a criteria to be considered, but not the only one. Record sales do not equal greatness.

Besides, I think XYZ introduced a lot of meaningful criteria above on which to judge.

The number of times that Jay-Z duplicated his success definitely is a compelling argument to me though.


**********
According to thedope1theycallunit ...

if you cant judge by record sales, then what do you judge by?
**********

Re: Jay-Z

Vanilla Ice and Hammer, in thier day, were tight...

of course, i was only 7 when Ice Ice baby came out.

i think it was the first maxi single i ever bought.

Re: Jay-Z

To make this argument, I think you have to turn the definition of "classic" on its head.

What makes an album classic, is its interest or importance after a significant period of time. If this album is just as meaningful five/ten years from now - that will speak of its quality of being classic.

Endurance and longevity play a large role in determining whether an album is classic or not.

**********
According to mcxyz ...

American Gangster did just come out, but it is a classic album (i don't see classic having to be only labeled so after a "waiting period")...
**********

Re: Jay-Z

**********
According to canoe134 ...

funny how people measure "record sales" as a marker on how good someone is...

*money does not = talented M.C.

turn off your Mtv
**********

Yes yes - time to wake the f*ck up!

Re: Jay-Z

Greatest Rap Artists of All Time
by: Gary Whittaker

http://www.articlecity.com/articles/music_and_movies/article_151.shtml

This list is based on lyrical ability, album sales, and longevity. Producers are not counted in this list. While we must give honourable mention to groups like RUN DMC who were breakthrough artists, and P.Diddy who is arguably the most powerful rap mogul (with Suge Knight perhaps the most dangerous), we are focusing on individuals who have each brought a unique style and message to the rap world. You may also noticed that the list is testosterone driven, but let’s face it, other than an argument for Queen Latifah, there simply are no great female rappers.

10. Talib Kweli

For someone who has never “made it”, no one is more respected in the rap industry for his lyrical ability than Talib Kweli. If he has not made it into the mainstream, it’s because he has more to talk about than just guns, bitches and money.

9. Ludacris

Luda is one of the hottest rappers out there today, but then so are a bunch of other young rappers like Nelly. Why we put Chris miles ahead of the pack for the simple reason that Luda is just plain FEARLESS! He spends his time not just trying to perfect the right rhyme, but the pitch and rhythmic tones for his speech patterns as well. He is also not afraid to take on movies with actual significant speaking parts and was part of the best movie of 2005 in Crash. Look for Ludacris to overtake LL by end of 2006.

8. LL Cool J

His rap career is basically over. He is reduced to Will Smith like rap status with his one hit per album these days, as he concentrates on his TV and movie career. That being said, LL was the first rapper to break into TV and kept the ball rolling after 2 Pac’s death for rappers to be considered seriously in movies. And for a guy who everyone complains about his lack of lyrical ability, nobody has squashed more beef than LL as well.

7. Chuck D

Fear of a Black Planet. Nuff said? Maybe. If I need to say more, than I will simply say that Chuck is to the underground what Emimem is to mainstream.

6. Busta Rhymes

>From his Leaders of the New School origins, to his recently re-invented shaved head self, Busta Rhymes’ ugly mug can be seen blasting at you in videos everywhere. Fortunately for him, talent is not based on looks. Busta’s in your face style, and crazy videos make him the Rick James of the Rap World.

5. Notorious B.I.G

Ok, ok, before you click on the refresh button to make sure that you are reading this right, let me just say that had the Notorious One not been killed during his prime, he may well be in the top 3, and I would even argue best ever. I will also concede that he was the best of his time, but compared to the overall careers of those we put ahead of him, his limited time in the rap game has him falling short.

4. Nas

God’s Son is next, since you can’t beat B.I.G on album sales alone. Nas has got the talent to be one of the best ever, and consistently shows his range on every album. While there is some controversy over some favourable comments he made about Hitler, we choose to give him the benefit of the doubt until it is proven otherwise. Nas’ ability is such that even if the beat is whack, you will listen to the song just to hear what he has to say.

3. Emimem (Marshall Mathers)

Speaking of squashing beef, can only one do it better than Slim Shady? We don’t think so. From Moby, to Benzino, to his own mother, Marshall has absolutely destroyed all those that sought to take him down. This man even simulated killing his own wife on wax, and had you feeling like she deserved it! What we love about Em is that he writes about what he knows. As his life changes, so do his songs. You may say that he gets away with all his crap and makes so many sales because of his skin color, but I defy you to find anyone that is even willing to take him on now lyrically. If Curtain Call truly does become his last album, then he will undoubtedly fall from this list, but at this time, there is only 1 person alive that can be considered better than him.

2. Jay Z

From his debut in 1996 until his “final” solo album in 2003, no live rapper has sold more hit platinum albums than Hov. Jay Z also went from co-founding Roc-A-Fella records to becoming the president of Dej Jam, and is responsible for launching the careers of many other now platinum artists. Jay Z has done everything a rapper can do in the business industry without getting shot or going to jail.

1. Tupac (2 Pac) Shakur

Whether you believe in the Man or the Muth, Tupac’s status has gone beyond iconic to legendary. More albums have been released and gone platinum after his death, than when he was alive. Through his words, you can hear his spirit and his passion for both his people and the direction they were headed. People of all colors respond to his music becomes he teaches hope. He is the only rapper to say that he will rap about guns and violence in order to reach his audience. Once they are listening, only then can he capture their hearts by his more peaceful message of peaceful co-existence by ending struggle through action.

Re: Jay-Z

^^^^

just what some dude had to say. not arguing this list is true or anything.

also, this list is from sometime in 2006. slightly outdated.

[ djwhizard - 9 Nov 2007 10:03 ]

Re: Jay-Z

**********
According to thedope1theycallunit ...

Vanilla Ice and Hammer, in thier day, were tight...

of course, i was only 7 when Ice Ice baby came out.

i think it was the first maxi single i ever bought.
*********

Dont even try to put Vanilla Ice in with Hammer - that is ridiculous!

Back in Jr high when Vanilla Ice came out he was pure WACK-NESS.
He didnt work hard for his deal. He didnt sell records out of his trunk to everyone is the hood like NWA, Hammer, or Sublime. He didnt give anything back to his people (I dunno who his people are lol), and he even tried to skip out on paying queen for his wack ass beats. Stop it with V-Ice, He shouldnt even be mentioned on this thread.

Back then groups like Public Enemy shat on hacks like Vanilla Ice and the saga continues with similar situations even in D&B today

edit for typos*


[ dirtydeeds - 9 Nov 2007 10:05 ]
[ dirtydeeds - 9 Nov 2007 10:03 ]

Re: Jay-Z

all it takes to have a #1 record is the recordlabel buying good amounts the first week. the hype on the record sales hypes more people to buy it, and the label can write off the purchase as promotion. there's a budget for this at most labels.

and with an artist being a label head, how can his record not go #1?

i'm not saying he's not good, i'm just saying there is a formula to a "number 1 record!"

Re: Jay-Z

**********
According to djwhizard ...

Greatest Rap Artists of All Time
by: Gary Whittaker

http://www.articlecity.com/articles/music_and_movies/article_151.shtml

This list is based on lyrical ability, album sales, and longevity. Producers are not counted in this list. While we must give honourable mention to groups like RUN DMC who were breakthrough artists, and P.Diddy who is arguably the most powerful rap mogul (with Suge Knight perhaps the most dangerous), we are focusing on individuals who have each brought a unique style and message to the rap world. You may also noticed that the list is testosterone driven, but let’s face it, other than an argument for Queen Latifah, there simply are no great female rappers.

10. Talib Kweli

For someone who has never “made it”, no one is more respected in the rap industry for his lyrical ability than Talib Kweli. If he has not made it into the mainstream, it’s because he has more to talk about than just guns, bitches and money.

9. Ludacris

Luda is one of the hottest rappers out there today, but then so are a bunch of other young rappers like Nelly. Why we put Chris miles ahead of the pack for the simple reason that Luda is just plain FEARLESS! He spends his time not just trying to perfect the right rhyme, but the pitch and rhythmic tones for his speech patterns as well. He is also not afraid to take on movies with actual significant speaking parts and was part of the best movie of 2005 in Crash. Look for Ludacris to overtake LL by end of 2006.

8. LL Cool J

His rap career is basically over. He is reduced to Will Smith like rap status with his one hit per album these days, as he concentrates on his TV and movie career. That being said, LL was the first rapper to break into TV and kept the ball rolling after 2 Pac’s death for rappers to be considered seriously in movies. And for a guy who everyone complains about his lack of lyrical ability, nobody has squashed more beef than LL as well.

7. Chuck D

Fear of a Black Planet. Nuff said? Maybe. If I need to say more, than I will simply say that Chuck is to the underground what Emimem is to mainstream.

6. Busta Rhymes

>From his Leaders of the New School origins, to his recently re-invented shaved head self, Busta Rhymes’ ugly mug can be seen blasting at you in videos everywhere. Fortunately for him, talent is not based on looks. Busta’s in your face style, and crazy videos make him the Rick James of the Rap World.

5. Notorious B.I.G

Ok, ok, before you click on the refresh button to make sure that you are reading this right, let me just say that had the Notorious One not been killed during his prime, he may well be in the top 3, and I would even argue best ever. I will also concede that he was the best of his time, but compared to the overall careers of those we put ahead of him, his limited time in the rap game has him falling short.

4. Nas

God’s Son is next, since you can’t beat B.I.G on album sales alone. Nas has got the talent to be one of the best ever, and consistently shows his range on every album. While there is some controversy over some favourable comments he made about Hitler, we choose to give him the benefit of the doubt until it is proven otherwise. Nas’ ability is such that even if the beat is whack, you will listen to the song just to hear what he has to say.

3. Emimem (Marshall Mathers)

Speaking of squashing beef, can only one do it better than Slim Shady? We don’t think so. From Moby, to Benzino, to his own mother, Marshall has absolutely destroyed all those that sought to take him down. This man even simulated killing his own wife on wax, and had you feeling like she deserved it! What we love about Em is that he writes about what he knows. As his life changes, so do his songs. You may say that he gets away with all his crap and makes so many sales because of his skin color, but I defy you to find anyone that is even willing to take him on now lyrically. If Curtain Call truly does become his last album, then he will undoubtedly fall from this list, but at this time, there is only 1 person alive that can be considered better than him.

2. Jay Z

From his debut in 1996 until his “final” solo album in 2003, no live rapper has sold more hit platinum albums than Hov. Jay Z also went from co-founding Roc-A-Fella records to becoming the president of Dej Jam, and is responsible for launching the careers of many other now platinum artists. Jay Z has done everything a rapper can do in the business industry without getting shot or going to jail.

1. Tupac (2 Pac) Shakur

Whether you believe in the Man or the Muth, Tupac’s status has gone beyond iconic to legendary. More albums have been released and gone platinum after his death, than when he was alive. Through his words, you can hear his spirit and his passion for both his people and the direction they were headed. People of all colors respond to his music becomes he teaches hope. He is the only rapper to say that he will rap about guns and violence in order to reach his audience. Once they are listening, only then can he capture their hearts by his more peaceful message of peaceful co-existence by ending struggle through action.
**********

No RAKIM??????

Re: Jay-Z

**********
According to teekay ...

all it takes to have a #1 record is the recordlabel buying good amounts the first week. the hype on the record sales hypes more people to buy it, and the label can write off the purchase as promotion. there's a budget for this at most labels.

and with an artist being a label head, how can his record not go #1?

i'm not saying he's not good, i'm just saying there is a formula to a "number 1 record!"
**********
Yep. Clive Davis did this with Alicia Keyes' debut album (it went platinum before stores opened?!?!) It's called 'greasing' and a friend in the rap industry tells us that people are paid to ring up mass amounts of cd's before they're sold.
LAME.

Re: Jay-Z

So true. I remember watching an interview with Dash and Z, they were talking about the moment they realized cash in videos made fans want to buy their music even more. So from then on they started focusing on that blinged out lifestyle in the early years to sell records. The power of Marketing.

Re: Jay-Z

If he thinks he's the best, he def is not.
Maybe if you go by album sales than yes, he is the best selling rapper.
but i know a handfull of rappers that would tear his ass up.
Just because he is marketable does not mean he is the best mc out there.
And about the whole classic thing, it def needs time to be classified as a classic.
To say something is classic after its first week is kind of rediculous.
Congrats to Jay on reaching his goals and aspirations tho, thats huge to get 9 #1 albums.
He is def doin his thing!

Classic - Having lasting significance or worth; enduring

I would say that jay is a classic mc tho.

We all have our own opinions and we have the right to share them.
None of us are "RIGHT".
Just as long as we are true to ourselves and or beliefs, its all good!

To each there own.

Re: Jay-Z

Heavy D = classic.



a diddly-diddly-diddly-diddly-diddly-D!

Re: Jay-Z

i have always repected and enjoyed JAY-Z

last night i caught that stroytellers program...
and again with another release...
my admiration of Jay-Z has gone UP!

absolutely amazing.

NUFF SAID!

Re: Jay-Z

Anytime I try and listen to Jay-Z, Nas' "Ether" echoes in the back of my mind ... haha ... the ultimate poison ...

Re: Jay-Z

**********
According to uome ...

no
**********

Re: Jay-Z

^^yes NAS did kill him on Ether (best diss song, even better then The Bridge Is Over)...^^^

1) why does selling a lot of records automatically exclude u from being the best. no one (at least not me) was not simply saying "he sells a lot so he is the best", BUT sales do count for something cause that means many people like u as an artist, no? I love the "assumption" that ohhh so many mcs would ripp Jay-Z apart, HA! okay letz see them rock crowds of 30,000K, letz see their catalog of music, letz see their appeal globally, letz see their songs, consistent lyrics etc.. It is so easy to say ur better then the best until u step to the best (like Jae Millz said "it's real easy to talk greasy about Mike Jordan till ur on the court with him and he's putting up 40"). u can say "ohhh it is 100% a marketing machine", but u are discrediting J as if he didn't do anything musically to help himself get to this point (umm he went from selling crack to rapping). also HE OWNED the ROC (the "label" that blew him up). He marketed, promoted himself (doesn't every artist?). El-P said it best "when sales control stats i put no faith in the majority", but it also leaves open the notion that just cause u sell a lot of (whatever) doesn't automatically make u wack or that people ONLY follow u for every other reason but ur talent. if that is so i guess The Beatles, Jimmi Hendrix, Beastie Boys, Pac, BIG, Beethovan, Da Vinci, Guns N Roses and a slew of other artists are lame cause millions of people like them...

2) As much as i respect cats like Rakim and KRS1, a lot of times the originators don't get to see the full potential of that which they help create (the best inventors take an invention and add something to it). As great as Dr. J was and redefined the NBA, Jordan is better then him. Now some of those who were "back in the day" still maintain their position as "the greatest" say like a Wayne Gretzky in hockey or a John Coltrane or Shakespeare (this is in the eyes of "the masses"). Hip Hop started in NYC but now is bumped in the streets of Israel to Chile. Folks like KRS1 and Rakim and others influenced J and still slay many rappers today (still and off of their catalogs), but i'm sorry Jay Z has JUST as much influence on rappers today (whether u like their style or not) and a catalog that is deeper then theirs and respects from people who respect them (Rakim) and people who Rakim never got to reach out to.

3) Again, imo, i can find better lyricists then Jay, i can find better storytellers and probably go thru every category and find someone whom may be better, BUT overall no one is better Jay. Lyrics, Content, Hits, Catalog, Concerts, Shows, Influence, Songs, Metaphors, Storytelling, credibility...who even competes? The only one who does imo is Pac, but due do his death his run was cut short.

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on mc hammer...personally Hammer was a true G! i swear i hate the hate hammer gets. people called him a sellout...y cause he was the first doing Taco Bell commercials or commercials for doritos...fast foward now and it is now the norm for cross-promotion with rappers (funny cause like Ice Cube and others were dissing Hammer back in the day, now they all have endorsement deals [which i don't mind]). Also for all the talk of rappers taking action in their communities, Hammer actually HIRED people from Oakland! he had a huge entourage, but they were all employed peeps from his community who otherwise would be jobless or committing crimes. of course this caught up to him when he declared bankruptcy, but hell who buys a mansion in Oakland (just bad business). Then people made fun of him cause he made "dance music/rap'...so the fuk wat. Who the hell says rap can't be fun and make u want to dance. A lot of Motown music wasn't super conscious, it just made u dance, ummmm Funk music etc.. That is why i even respect (not necessarily like it all) dumb down music like "snap and rock" or "ballin'" or "crank dat soulja boy" cause if people wanna dance so what, life is hard enough sometimes u wanna let loose. Seriously the public did Hammer wrong cause he was actually one of the only rappers in rap history actually keeping it the "realest" yet he got villified. Now Vanilla Ice...that's another story, but 17 million people bought his album so someone was feeling him....

Re: Jay-Z

According to wikipedia, Tupac is the highest selling rap artist of all time.

Therefore he is the greatest rapper.

"Tupac Amaru Shakur (June 16, 1971 – September 13, 1996), also known by his stage names 2Pac, Makaveli, or simply Pac, was an American artist renowned for his rapping and hip hop music, as well as his movie roles, poetry, and his social activism. He is recognized in the Guinness Book of World Records as the highest-selling rap artist, with over 75,000,000 albums sold worldwide, including over 50,000,000 in the United States alone.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur

Re: Jay-Z

i agree with you 100% - that is why I didn't diss hammer, and I didn't see anyone in this thread diss hammer either. Dude was a G.

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According to mcyxz ...

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on mc hammer...personally Hammer was a true G! i swear i hate the hate hammer gets. people called him a sellout...y cause he was the first doing Taco Bell commercials or commercials for doritos...fast foward now and it is now the norm for cross-promotion with rappers (funny cause like Ice Cube and others were dissing Hammer back in the day, now they all have endorsement deals [which i don't mind]). Also for all the talk of rappers taking action in their communities, Hammer actually HIRED people from Oakland! he had a huge entourage, but they were all employed peeps from his community who otherwise would be jobless or committing crimes. of course this caught up to him when he declared bankruptcy, but hell who buys a mansion in Oakland (just bad business). Then people made fun of him cause he made "dance music/rap'...so the fuk wat. Who the hell says rap can't be fun and make u want to dance. A lot of Motown music wasn't super conscious, it just made u dance, ummmm Funk music etc.. That is why i even respect (not necessarily like it all) dumb down music like "snap and rock" or "ballin'" or "crank dat soulja boy" cause if people wanna dance so what, life is hard enough sometimes u wanna let loose. Seriously the public did Hammer wrong cause he was actually one of the only rappers in rap history actually keeping it the "realest" yet he got villified. Now Vanilla Ice...that's another story, but 17 million people bought his album so someone was feeling him....
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Re: Jay-Z

just listened to the entire album...

it stands up to the hype for sure

Re: Jay-Z

agreed!

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According to thedope1theycallunit ...

just listened to the entire album...

it stands up to the hype for sure
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Re: Jay-Z

with everyone putting in opinions i figured i'd give mine....

Jay Z has talent (or a market that thinks he is talented) and there is no denying is popularity. I thought American Gangster was a mediocre album that wasn't worth more than a few plays. I have never felt his style, but I do respect the fact that he has been doin his thing and makin crazy money. Also building a huge fan base. But him being the best...na i'll pass on saying that or even placing him anywhere near the top.

Oh well its all subjective anyways!

Graph