forums : Producing

What do you have to say about software piracy?

Since we've been on the subject a little here lately...

What are your opinions about music software piracy and software piracy in general?

Do you think that it hurts the entire industry, including the end user?

Do you think that software costs too much to warrant paying for it?

Do you care?

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

I think it's a good way to try out a program and see if you like it. Most of the time cracked software is unstable or doesn't even work at all.

Actually buying the programs also often come with other rewards like free updates, tech support, and a warranty.

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

when I was young I used all cracks.. but now that I make a living off of some soft ware I buy it...

it's just the thing to do...

you get to a point that professionally you can't whate to get a crack of something or if your rig takes a s**t it means you loose the gig... it's jsut not worth it in a pintch...

it's all a money thing I think...

time is money working with cracks takes alot of extra time finding them geting them to work and fixing s**t when it brakes...

I have to say I lurned alot of software on a crack before I bought it... so in that whay it promoted the producet...

I also herd a roumer that logic reliced cracks of verson 4 alot time ago to gain markit share...

in the end I think if you relly use it you need to buy it...

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

well... i say that the crack can serve as a little "taste test".

use the crack to see if you like it. and if you do. then buy it

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

yeah.. the crack is the demo you should of gotten. sometimes its hard to tell if a program is really good if you can't use all its features.i do think a lot of ppl use cracked software with no intentions of ever buying it, but these ppl wouldnt be making money off it (i hope!) i'm not sure how it *really* effects the industry though..

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

bulls**t, people download cracked software 90% of the time cause they can't afford the outrageous prices the indusry puts on set programs, and once you get a nice crack that works perfectly, why are you gonna waste your time and your money??? I'll tell you this much if weren't so much money for a program or if i was making bank i would purchase it no problem, but i'm not. I'm poor, and it s the only way alot of people can get their hands on this amazing software. thats why Fruity rocks so much. You can do pretty much everything you can on expensive programs and it cost 3/4 the price!

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

software piracy is what is keeping most hardware synth companies alive.

I think companies like creamware had the right idea, computer dependent hardware synths, the problem is always the price tough.

Maybe software companies should Invest a little more $$$ into protection R&D. It would be cool if they could run the program from the dongle or if some parts of the main engine are inside the dongle, thus you wouldn't be able to run the program without the dongle and you couldn't crack the dongle unless you had a really expensive bus analyzer.

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

people use cracks because software is so expensive.

software is so expensive because people use cracks.

a snake eating it's own tail...

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

I'm along the lines of the taste testers. A perfect example of this was when Reason was initially released. A 20 minute timebomb demo is not the way to convence me to shell out close to $300 for a program. When the demos released become so intrusive that you can't really get to know the program then what's the point? They want you to buy on faith.. Another thing that occurs is that sometimes you really need to build a track using whatever you are interested in. For example, if it's a synth.. well you might like the sounds when just toying around with it... but it sucks when you realize is doesn't sit in the mix well with the style of music you create. Things like this take time before you really know how useful it is. If the demo won't save your presets, or whatever.. then you are constantly starting over again. I think that is a lot to ask, especially when you take a look at the price of some of these plugs.

In the end tho, you should purchase what you find useful.. because if you use it, then those coders are deserving of your cash.

It's like test driving a car... figuratively. A lot of the software demos basically put a limit on how hard you can step on the gas. Well s**t, I wanna see how it runs at full tilt.. not cruise.

In any case, if you use it in the end, BUY it.

BTW, R&D can shove all the money they want into copy protection, and their will always be someone to take up the challange. Syncrosoft thought they outsmarted 'em with the latest protection scheme on SX (even outright challanging crackers).. and we all know how that turned out... cracked.

[ modulr - 6 Nov 2003 10:50 ]

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

Syncrosoft blows everyone knows that...I'm saying to actually embed the program into the key..but seems to be too far advanced of a concept for some

BTW.
I doubt someone who has access to a $15,000 bus analyzer and actually knows how to use it is gonna bother to use it for a $350 product.

I want to get the crack for the Virus C...ohh wait... YOU CAN"T CRACK HARDWARE!

[ malfunktion - 6 Nov 2003 11:09 ]

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

It's a balancing act.. dongles are a pain in the ass. Someone swiped or Avid dongle here at work, and it literally shut our bay down. Having even more vital aspects of the application loaded on a dongle seems even more ludicris, as it would require updates at certain points. Also, we are talking about audio software in general.. not specifically hosts. So what do you do with loads of plugins and your 3 USB ports?

Protection schemes like that do nothing but alienate the company from their users even further. Many houses uses cracks just to avoid using dongles, although they have payed. Here at work, sometimes our usb hub freaks out, and then the avid starts anouncing the sesseion is invalid and shuts down. dongles blow. Cracks will always be around.

Personally, I find I like supporting the smaller companies.. they seem to have a better grasp on how to treat customers... and if the price is reasonable, people will pay.

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

Software piracy has existed as long as software has...it's only more in the open now because people have such higher bandwidth and storage capabilities. I remember getting a cracked copy of the first version of Photoshop back in '89! Piracy will always exist, because there will always be someone, somewhere that's going to figure out how to do it.

So, the only solution is for software companies to design a new business model that takes these points into account and focuses on delivering a product that people are willing to pay for. I don't have any hard facts to back it up, but I'm pretty sure that smaller software companies have a better ratio of people who use their software to people who pay for it as compared to larger companies.

Of course, larger companies are going to have more people coming out of the woodwork to pirate their stuff just on general principle, but at the same time the smaller companies tend to have created a sort of community atmosphere where people want to contribute because they feel good about the company, not because they fear the FBI knocking on their door.

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

or if they were really smart, the software companies would set their software at a reasonable price. not the hundreds..if not more for something that everyone could get for free.

but in the end. it's a matter of personal morale. wheather or not they think it's really right.

but as for me..




long live hackers and crackers

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

i was too lazy to read all the posts, but i have to say that everytime im in guitar center i see some rich old dude buy $1000 worht of software.

Re: looking for kits

Wow, great replies...

I always have trouble with the whole "free demo" thing, though. Have any of you ever used a crack and then as soon as you had the money, you went out and bought the software instead of a bag of weed, or a new stereo, or a new audio card, or a new computer.

Have you ever actually turned down buying something you wanted because you had to go and purchase the software you have been using as a crack?

I highly doubt that.

And since when does something have to make you money in order for you to have to pay for it? That makes no sense. Does that mean that your car doesn't make you money, so you should get it for free? There are a lot of people on the road that are definitely not professional drivers, and they paid for their car. Its a prodcut someone sold them, not a free ride until you start making money off of it.

Re: looking for kits

I guess the 'free demo' deal is like a universal .. act of respect? (how ironic haha) this isn't my exact opinion, but it seems that a lot of 'professional' software contains 'professional' prices, so to the non-'professional' (couldn't help it), they feel if they aren't making pro-level material, or selling their tracks etc.. theres no reason they should be paying to use it.. but like you said, tons of people who dont know how to drive buy sporty.. .. 'professional' driving cars ;D

Re: looking for kits

the "if you make money thing" comes from a old teacher that taught me Photoshop...

I also think in my old age I would rater pay the money and have it work right now because i don't have night after night to sit in my parents house and f**k around with some crappy crack of some soft ware... I want it to work and I want the manuel to answer my questions NOW!... thats what you get for your money..

s**t I even bough fetch for $25 because i did not want to f**k around trying to find some sceral # to crack it.. I was making money off of uplading photos I took... I wanted to get paid.. so I payed the money for the software... and I save time and agen time is money....E=MC2


I have never had to buy Photoshop but the people I work for Do...

I don't make money off music but I have bought the soft ware I like and use... but I think this has to do with me now being out of school and making a real living... if I was a kid... I honestly don't know if I could do it... When I was young I had a hell of a time just getting a computer and so after that I never had the Money to buy software.....

but if all the crackers grow up to be paying users there is hope right????

Re: looking for kits

who you callin craker fool!


hahah yeh...there will always be h/crackers ..im buying my copies slowly...

respect-

Re: looking for kits

its f**king great... i dont have to pay for s**t and my studio runs like a f**king charm...

Re: looking for kits

One of the reasons for the high software prices is simply to rope it off from the amateurs. For instance, take Shake 3. Walk into an Apple Store and take a look at the back of the box...mickey fickey costs $4,500! Most of that cost is to make bigger video production houses feel comfortable in the fact that some regular guy down the block isn't using it, too.

[ cinemafia - 7 Nov 2003 08:31 ]

Re: looking for kits

is that wrong....does it set limits on us? What about the moral aspect of it all..and what about the money side of it....i agree with the theory that if you make money off of it then buy it....but until then i say its free reign on the cracks....its a chance or a start for people who have the imagination and love to do it but no money....but as for pricing it waaay too high just so not everyone is using it....welll its like sports cars.....someone is gonna steal it....its too nice not too an lots of people want nice cars....youll never be able to stop car theft anymmore than youll stop piracy...thats why they are trying to scare everyone and now they are practicly pleading for people to stop...because they cant stop everyone...its like a new revolution that has been brewing for years and the napsters etc have publicized it to the point that everyone knows about the chance of getting free stuff.......shiiiiiit this is america man......free s**t ....were on it...wether its right, wrong, who can really say.......until i get money out of this i aint payin for s**t tho...im testing right now...

Re: looking for kits

damn the man
haha

Re: looking for kits

how much is logic anyways...and does anyone have a used midi contoller for sale...


oxygen 8 maybe....or how much are they new??

[ critikal - 7 Nov 2003 06:51 ]
[ critikal - 7 Nov 2003 06:49 ]

Re: looking for kits

oxygen 8 will run you abuot $125, i may have one for sale in december.

Re: looking for kits

I bought my Oxy 8 for a little less than $100 on eBay!

Oh and Logic 6 runs $700

and uh...just for the record...I've never been able to get a crack of Logic to work...so I gave up

[ cinemafia - 7 Nov 2003 08:37 ]

Re: looking for kits

how are the oxy 8's?

im thinkin bout getting one also

Re: looking for kits

the last working crack of logic I saw was for 4

[ dr.h - 7 Nov 2003 16:42 ]

Re: looking for kits

i know this guy...he knows this other guy that has logic platinum like 5.35 or some s**t...its the newest one...

but i have no use for it...im still learning FL and Soundforge...etc etc///

[ critikal - 7 Nov 2003 16:47 ]

Re: looking for kits

so what is it... has that little Xkey thing actually blocked cracks...

they can just let the software hang out there but if you don't have the Xkey nothing works...

do any other programs use something like that I know after effects has a don-gel for the production bundle but but I thin a dungle is diffrnet becuse logic had a dongel crack and nowone has a Xkey hack

Re: looking for kits

Xkey hack, crack, serials...

all this is giving me a headache. fawk it. ill just buy the software

Re: looking for kits

the Oxy 8's are bad ass because they're so cheap, portable and yet useful. I use mine more everyday...

Re: looking for kits

i can get a full working version im almost positive.....ill check into it.

Re: looking for kits

I have a working logic 5.10.To bad I dont know how to use the s**t.

[ disorderlyconduct - 8 Nov 2003 15:13 ]

Re: looking for kits

tech support & reliability is the best thing about buying.

i'd actually like to see dif software co's annual profits tho. even if there was 0 piracy would programmers & developers get paid more?

i think alot of software is overpriced. i dont what goes into developing, distributing, and marketing it but i figure that developing it is a one time cost. and the product can sell for years

Re: looking for kits

developing isn't really a one time cost, as users expect there to be bug fixes in addition to new features/improvements. So in a sense, you are perpetually developing.

I coded my own step sequencer VST.. and I can tell you, that it's a pain in the ass.. and once you think you've nailed it, and you release it to the public as a beta.. you get a slew of bugs and feature ideas that have to be addressed.. and it never quite feels like it'll ever end.

I made my plugin freeware, because that way I'm not *obligated* to provide support although I do. However, I can understand why software companies charge what they do... Writing all that code blows, fixing the bugs blows even more, and while writing new feautures is somewhat fun... it in turn creates more bugs. It's a viscous cycle.

People devalue software easily, because there seems so little to it.. but there is a lot of hardwork behind a lot of it.

Re: pirates arrrr!

kind of ironic this thread....

i don't know why but i know some hardcore pirates that live the lifestyle. i mean, dvds of any current movie (kill bill). pretty much anything traded on the internet, only these guys are dope because they only like the top quality s**t, and make sure that's what they have. they share and serve so naturally. i mean, we are talking about people that are essentially virtual realestate agents. terabytes of information. gaming lans. intercepting wi-fi 10mb internet, free. playing enemy territory and such. as long as these are the people i'm aligned with i'm not worried. i'm simply a protoge to these people because they are all a little older and more experienced. of course, they are totally good people.... never harm or even show aggression (physically). they just appreciate the form at which they constantly aim to perfect. the actual intellectual content almost means nothing to them. what really matters is how well they copied it and reproduced it, how well they can run it, etc.... content comes second. i love it.... me i'm just a stupid mp3 leech. they could honestly care less about the "latest dubplate". but the amount of software they move among eachother is literally more than they will ever have the time to use. the most impressive of all that i've gained from the teachers, is "ghost". obviously i'm not such a smooth criminal, but these people straight up don't exist unless they want to contact you. websites that only appear at will periodically type s**t that makes you wonder if its even real. love it. infact (i'm sharing a lot of information about my homies oh well) a couple of the guys i know have been playing genesis one of the original telnet games for almost a decade. it's a roleplaying game style, but in this realm they are god like.... writting the game as they play. now we are dealing with the type of people that set up servers in other countries and are underground like remote programming, checks in the mail f**k being famous i'm rich type s**t.... yeah, i think my friends are pretty neat.


* this f**ker needs paragraphs or something.... what kind of f**ked up english skills do i have? haha

[ jungleselekta - 10 Nov 2003 12:40 ]

Re: pirates arrrr!

it's funny cause this thread makes me feel so hypocritical. It's like, I feel like I can identify with both sides..

Somewhere in here, it's all about ying and yang... balance of the universe and s**t. You gotta have the undergound to keep people on their toes. :P

Re: pirates arrrr!

exactly...I think most people don't want to screw anybody over, they just want stuff free. I think that's a basic human need...free stuff.

Re: pirates arrrr!

obviously if everyone who uses the software would buy it, then it would cost less....I think as the price of the copmuter continues to go down...there will be a bit of a revolution and software companies will see alot more money....prices will go down and improvements will increase...I think now that we are just in a grey area...its kind of punk...but I think the time of stealing music and software openly is very close to its end

Re: pirates arrrr!

all we have is our local hacker to keep the dream alive!! LOL!!

well....if it does ever end...prices will go down, demos will be more thorough, and there won't be as many posers.

Re: pirates arrrr!

Corps charge what they can get out of you. CDs should be cheaper than cassettes and we all know where that stands. As a matter of fact, not until everyone started stealing on mass proportions did the prices really begin to drop.. in an effort to recapture what's been lost. Of course, software isn't quite the same scenario... but do you really think steignberg would be selling their "pro marketed" Nuendo suite for $200 or so. Nope. Those aren't the the people they are after. They don't want FL users. They want studio heads that drop loads of cash for Pro-Tool bays. Piracy, ain't gonna change that.

Huge price gaps are the biggest corporate illusions... to make the end-user feel like he or she has a quality product. A huge mindf**k.. and capitalism at it's finest.

[ modulr - 11 Nov 2003 18:11 ]

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

>to make the end-user feel like he or she has a quality product. A huge mindf**k..

very true. in the early days of software, there was a big argument over whether it should be free or not. big companies [like IBM] felt that the only model for profit was in the hardware - of course microsoft changed all that and force fed their OS to the world [gave it away OEM for free] in the hope that someday all people would be hooked on it. gearing all their resources to the software developers [in the hope that many software developers would begin to develop in windows] - everything worked as planned and now a copy of XP will cost you about the same as the hardware to put it on.

i been usin hackd software since the early days [apple II] - back then there wasnt the moral entanglement of today. if you could crack/hack it, it was yours. somehow in our perversely puritanical society we've equated software piracy to an "immoral act" - we can deny health care to anyone without the means to pay for it, invade sovereign nations under the guise of "freedom", consume 39% of the worlds resources [while making up 12% of it], yet if you copy your friend's CD [that has about a 1400% markup over cost] youre "immoral". whats more frightening is that big business is dictating morality in our society..

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

intellectual propriety....

>to make the end-user feel like he or she has a quality product. A huge mindf**k

if something is unauthorized is it not a quality product?

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

arrrgh

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

**********
According to evil ...

>whats more frightening is that big business is dictating morality in our society..
**********



But isn't demand from society what created that big business?

Re: What do you have to say about software piracy?

>But isn't demand from society what created that big business?

yea demand is created by the consumer, if thats what you mean - thats the big debate in the tobacco
litigation - are the tabacco companies responsible for tobacco related deaths? its also the central point in gun debate? do guns kill? or is the consumer? i think when big business manipulates the morality of a society in order to increase profit margins tho, we should feel a little queesy. is it wrong? i dont know. the central point of my early statement is "should we follow a moral code generated by big business to further its ends?"

i would say "no" its the job of religious/community leaders whose interests are in the greater society
[not meeting a quartly financial goal] - the problem with big business dictating morality is, where does it stop? bell helicopter more or less perpetuated the vietnam war [by supporting anti-communist causes] in order to sell more helicopters. lots of people lost their lives doing the "moral" thing [fighting communism].. alas a drastic example, but you get the point.

Re: looking for kits

Yes, I see your point, but it doesn't seem to hold water in the case of music software. If the company that makes a quality product can't afford to pay the people who help to get that quality product into your hand, that product will cease to exist. Its a little different than war. War is something no consumer wants. But a consumer definitely wants software to continuie to be developed and sold.

And if you think that companies such as Steinberg, emagic, propellerheads, and Native Instruments are HUGE corporations that pay high salaries, well then you've obviously never worked in the music software industry. Most of the tech support people that people always complain about work overtime for the same amount of money that you would make at a coffee shop. If a company needs to cut costs in order to make up for lost dollars due to piracy, the consumer is the one that suffers, due to that company hiring someone else who will do the job for cheaper, but may not be the best person for the job. This happens constantly in the music software industry, just like right now in the supermarket industry, only its not because of greedy corporate leaders taking away health care, its because of loss of profits due to piracy.

Re: looking for kits

Actually I have worked in the software industry for a long time; and I know that software is obscenely overpriced [back to the "A huge mindf**k.. " observation earlier]. tech support kidds [and i know cause i was one] get paid crap wages cause thats the market value of that position - not because companies are loosing profits to pirates - if anything, most pirates would have never used the product in the first place if they couldnt pirate it.

in a way, its funny to watch americans try to make moral sense of piracy - as if its some great dis-service to humanity. if you go to asia you can get anything: software / DVD / X-box / etc released often sometimes before its released here [i picked up the Matrix Reloaded about a month before it was released in the US for.. 70 cents]. it wouldnt dawn on them to see coping a CD/DVD as the great moral crux we see it as..

anyhow you can preach all day, but piracy is here to stay. music industry sales have dropped almost 2/3 of their pre-mp3 high, and continuing to drop. which strongly suggests that the corporate funded moral lesson isnt working if millions of people are ignoring it. people have a natural tendency to ignore dumb laws [like, um, say.. drug laws] - if you can crack it, its yours. maybe go to mass on sunday if ya can't live with yourself for violating the piracy laws..

Re: looking for kits

but I think the time of stealing music and software openly is very close to its end
~~~~~~~~~~~~`

dream on... the darkside will always prevail... for every one person working to develop antipiracy software there are two dozen foolz on our team working to keep it free... if the protection is software based, it can be duplicated - no exceptions. phrozen cru and other elietest crack MAJOR security checks (playstation, dvd,eetc) in days, sometimes hours. Antipiracy efforts are aimed at the lower 90% who cant even put forth minimal efforts to circumvent the most rudamentary protections... P2P networks are COMPLETELY decentralized...who do you go after? I could not dissagree more.

Re: looking for kits

and on the theory that "if everyone bought it, of course the price would drop..."

really? like cable TV (50-100 a month!!!)? like analog phone lines (which were outrageously expensive till an alternative appeared..)??? like MS Office (perfect example! every business desktop in america has it.... is it REASONABLY priced??)

[ shockwave - 13 Nov 2003 19:28 ]