forums : Producing

getting back into the game.

I promised myself I would get back into making music again once I finished up undergrad. Now that its becoming a reality I'm ready to begin again. I did something I shouldn't have done and listened to my old songs from the last seven or eight years. I realized that I should keep going, not to get anything out of it but to continue honing something that I shouldnt have given up on the first place.

My current set up is....well, nada, all I have is a heavy duty laptop with nothing but 3d/2d progs on it. I have two questions, first, I'm planning on being broke for a while, paying rent and loans(lots and lots and lots) so my budget is pretty tight, but whats a good starting place? I'm thinking programs but I would like to do a bit of both, in computer and real world production. Space is sort of limited so I dont anticipate going for a full studio set up.

I was a full fledged FLstudio user but now I am possibly interested in going into something else. Without going nuts and starting a holy war, should I ditch the fl and go into something else? If so, what? Lets consider the learning curve and what environent I am used to working in. Pro tool is still mac only right?

I like to use both samples and synths, so the hypothetical set up would/should accomadate both.

sorry for the long post. thanks in advance.

Re: getting back into the game.

actually.....i just realized how out of it i am.

What do people use to cut up samples these days? I know soundforge was bought out by sony....is it still used or is something else in place?

Also, if I am on a laptop I would probably need a usb out box to use with monitors correct?

Re: getting back into the game.

For drums I've been using Recycle by Propellerhead. Or sometimes I just import the loop into Cubase and cut them up there.

You will need some kind of soundcard to use monitors with your laptop. You don't necessarily need a usb out box. If you have an audio out on our laptop's current sound card, then just connect a stereo jack to L/R RCA cable to your soundcard out (if it's got a stereo out) and plug the left RCA into your left monitor and the right RCA into your right monitor.

Re: getting back into the game.

first and foremost, welcome back!!! lol.... its good to see you getting back into this man.

my 2cents = stick with fruity. the more people I run into that have "made it" the more I realize there are a TON of people working on it. Its never about what you use, but how you use it, and if you are familiar already with it, you will be stunned at the new updates they have made. The program is near flawless in my opinion now. I use it soley for everything except for mixdowns, which I still cant break away from SX3 on. Stick with the platform you know and get to making tunes quicker...imo.

Re: getting back into the game.

thanks man. i was afraid i would have to learn something else, but i do think learning something else to do my mixdowns in would be key.

Re: getting back into the game.

I think you should learn to use either cubase or logic. Fruity is good enough to write, but if you're like me, you like to engineer stuff as you go a bit - when it sounds clearer, you have a better picture of the tune and what you need to do with it. And it sucks to have to do all that, and then turn it off, bounce it, load it into another program, and do it all over again.

either program are pretty good. obviously you need mac to use logic, which still gets my vote. But there's plenty of people around here who know how to use cubase, so if you need tutoring, that's probably your best bet.

i use recycle to cut up all my drums, and in general i use it as a sample editor - it's great for sample banks full of long audio tracks that you need to cut s**t out of, because you can set your slices and then export them all separately.

for a laptop and a sound card, i'd recommend RME or MOTU interfaces. MOTU makes a lot of smaller firewire interfaces, but everyone says great things about RME, and RME are firewire 800-enabled.

if you have an option between USB2.0 and FW400, usb2.0 is 80Mbps faster than FW400 (480Mbps). But FW800 is 800Mbps... takes the cake.

Welcome back man. Congrats on the degree.

Re: getting back into the game.

as always solid advice andy, just remember not all of us write like you do....lol. I love to get the idea out quick and then get into a different mind set for the mixdowns, hence fruity for quick writting ability, then cubase for the tracked mixdown. I am finding there are many others that need this seperation as well to make it easier, otherwise this type of producer gets caught up in making everything sound polished and there is no soul left to the tune. but it sure sounds great. lol...It depends on how you are as a producer imo. I personally cant get caught up in cleaning up each sound or i loose my focus and direction on the tune. Then I can go back once the tracks are bounced and get my mixdown hat out. For me polishing each sound as you go is a huge downer to my creative process.

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According to 4_.phrantek._4 ...

I think you should learn to use either cubase or logic. Fruity is good enough to write, but if you're like me, you like to engineer stuff as you go a bit - when it sounds clearer, you have a better picture of the tune and what you need to do with it. And it sucks to have to do all that, and then turn it off, bounce it, load it into another program, and do it all over again.

either program are pretty good. obviously you need mac to use logic, which still gets my vote. But there's plenty of people around here who know how to use cubase, so if you need tutoring, that's probably your best bet.

i use recycle to cut up all my drums, and in general i use it as a sample editor - it's great for sample banks full of long audio tracks that you need to cut s**t out of, because you can set your slices and then export them all separately.

for a laptop and a sound card, i'd recommend RME or MOTU interfaces. MOTU makes a lot of smaller firewire interfaces, but everyone says great things about RME, and RME are firewire 800-enabled.

if you have an option between USB2.0 and FW400, usb2.0 is 80Mbps faster than FW400 (480Mbps). But FW800 is 800Mbps... takes the cake.

Welcome back man. Congrats on the degree.
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Re: getting back into the game.

one more thing!!! for colabs there is NOTHING that beats fruity. you can simply export that zip loop package and send it very easily through email, then who ever you are working with can just open the tune as you were just working on it. I have done this with multiple people now and it saves hours and hours of exporting tracks and importing tracks. Plus once you bounce to do that whatever FX you had are perminent, but in Fruity its still the source file so you can still change anything that was added. Okay enough, I have to go pick up my check from Fruity loops now.

Re: getting back into the game.

Fair enough! and truth be told, i kinda stopped eqing the s**t out of everything. if anything, I ADD more stuff to the signal by layering instead of taking it away. knowing how to layer well removes the need for a lot of eqing, distortion for fattening, and compression too - as long as you get the layer balance right.



I do agree with you, it can be a vibekiller. but still, i find that when i get my drums sounding nice first, it helps to figure out where everything else is going to sit in the mix... so i usually start with those, do my routing and parallel compression, and leave the eqing alone until i absolutely have to.

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According to dj.com ...

as always solid advice andy, just remember not all of us write like you do....lol. I love to get the idea out quick and then get into a different mind set for the mixdowns, hence fruity for quick writting ability, then cubase for the tracked mixdown. I am finding there are many others that need this seperation as well to make it easier, otherwise this type of producer gets caught up in making everything sound polished and there is no soul left to the tune. but it sure sounds great. lol...It depends on how you are as a producer imo. I personally cant get caught up in cleaning up each sound or i loose my focus and direction on the tune. Then I can go back once the tracks are bounced and get my mixdown hat out. For me polishing each sound as you go is a huge downer to my creative process.

Re: getting back into the game.

thanks again for the replies, I'm going to go with FL for a bit, but I am picking up a dvd/book on SX3. I looked into the firewire boxes you recommended Andy, they look great but they are expensive! But, no worries, its not like i dont spend gobs of money on bike s**t. Who knows what can come out of it, I just realized what I was missing out on by not making tunes.

I'm not too keen on a lot of whats being released, so I think I would make the songs that I would rather hear.

Re: getting back into the game.

I feel you SO BAD.

And raun, just as a tip - I know you love the distortion

But you'll have a much easier engineering job if you do it clean and just layer samples correctly to get the meat and texture you want. ultimately distortion just adjusts harmonics, which can be balanced with complementary sample choices, resulting in great tone AND a healthy waveform. Your stuff was really awesome before but you crushed it to death a lot. Let it breathe and see what happens

Re: getting back into the game.

just out of curiosity, and not knowing the alternatives, what makes fruity so bad for anything but writing? afaik the automation, fx, and all that other good stuff is still there... sure you may need to vst it, but what i see peeps to in cubase/logic is usually something i feel i can duplicate in FL.

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According to 4_.phrantek._4 ...

I think you should learn to use either cubase or logic. Fruity is good enough to write, but if you're like me, you like to engineer stuff as you go a bit - when it sounds clearer, you have a better picture of the tune and what you need to do with it. And it sucks to have to do all that, and then turn it off, bounce it, load it into another program, and do it all over again.

either program are pretty good. obviously you need mac to use logic, which still gets my vote. But there's plenty of people around here who know how to use cubase, so if you need tutoring, that's probably your best bet.

i use recycle to cut up all my drums, and in general i use it as a sample editor - it's great for sample banks full of long audio tracks that you need to cut s**t out of, because you can set your slices and then export them all separately.

for a laptop and a sound card, i'd recommend RME or MOTU interfaces. MOTU makes a lot of smaller firewire interfaces, but everyone says great things about RME, and RME are firewire 800-enabled.

if you have an option between USB2.0 and FW400, usb2.0 is 80Mbps faster than FW400 (480Mbps). But FW800 is 800Mbps... takes the cake.

Welcome back man. Congrats on the degree.
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Re: getting back into the game.

I'm using FL right now for this one tune I'm making and the more I use it... the more I'm beginning to like it. Once you get down how everything works and switch from a visual mindset (which is how i view cubase as) to pattern based mindset, it's a lot more bearable. Just gotta get over that hump.. Now I feel like I can do either and it doesn't really matter.. make tunes in FL or Cubase.. orrrr how about both?

Once I'm done with the pattern arrangement and stuff like that, I'm gonna throw this tune in Cubase and arrange a lot of the vocals and fx there and then finish it up.

It just all depends on how comfortable you feel with the different platforms.

Ultimately tho, IMO, I think it's gotta go to Logic/Cubase/ProTools to be mastered.

Re: getting back into the game.

My 2 Cents.

I f you like FL and it's worked for you in the past. I don't see why you'd switch. Unless there is something that that particular piece of gear isn't doing for you. I use FL up until version 3.something. Then switched over to using Cubase with some rewiring to include some of the Reason synths.

Now, I use Ableton almost exclusively. I love the interface. The work flow. Everything. And, at the end of the day. I can use it ot perform with as well.

I just reloaded Reason and upgraded to 4 a few days ago, but I'm fairly certain that I'll only be using it as something rewired into Ableton.

[ racypher - 20 Mar 2008 11:48 ]

Re: getting back into the game.

My big issues with Fruity, after seven years of working in a digital environment, are as follows:

1) Clutter (primarily). Fruity does a lot, and it takes a lot of viewing space. With a more efficient layout, I think the features that have been added to the program over the years would be more convenient.

2) Linearity. Simply put, Cubase and Logic are non-linear sequencers, which frees you up a lot in the writing phase (as opposed to loop-based Fruity). If you want accenting, humanization, or "abnormal" programming (i.e. not 4/4) it is much easier to achieve, as far as I've seen, in Logic and Cubase. Fruity's primary adherence to step sequencing is a design flaw, IMO.

These two issues are far reaching - especially clutter. This affects channel structure, file and channel management, and ease of routing as well as plugin accessibility. And in the engineering or mastering phase, it is just plain awkward for certain engineering styles. I personally like to bounce small chunks of final audio and then re-sequence on audio tracks. That is considerably more difficult and cumbersome in Fruity as opposed to Logic, especially with the way Fruity manages files.

I have seen no significant updates that have addressed these underlying concerns. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to learn more about Fruity updates.

I don't think Fruity is a bad program, I just think it's more of an amateur package and a learning tool for sequencing than anything. Not to offend. It's just that I've tried all the major packages, and Fruity has been my least favorite and the least able to satisfy my needs as an artist or engineer.

Re: getting back into the game.

but andy...i love distortion! i will make a note to lay off the stuff.

Re: getting back into the game.

Distortion isn't bad. you just have to know how to use it right, just like compression. If you'd like some pointers, I'd be happy to help. Stay away from a lot of the lower-qual distortion plugs if you're going to use it. camelcrusher is free and sounds much better, i'd warrant.

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According to raun. ...

but andy...i love distortion! i will make a note to lay off the stuff.
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