forums : Producing

sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

so i found a nice acapella and grabbed a couple of bars from it and added them to a tune i wrote.

does anyone know the legality of sampling that tune and releasing it as my own song?

could really use some help here.

thanks

-tapir

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

you need to get it cleared...

which means you need to contact the label or artist or producer or someone involved with what you sampled and get an okay from them...

otherwize when they hear it and see you makin $$$ off their ish they're gonna sue you

so look on the label of the record you sampled and an address or some names should be on there, that's who you should contact.

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

you don't need to do anything - if you are making dnb or dubstep and "releasing" means a digital release only don't waste your time or money doing anything besides making music

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

i remixed a remix, it went back to normal...

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

u need to contact the following:

-the label for the master

-the publisher for the publisher share


to get around the master if u have someone else sing or rap the acapella u need not pay the master owner. u still do need to pay the publisher.

Publishing = $$$ maker in the music biz (it keeps it afloat)

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

It kinda depends on where you are going to release it. There has been instances where DnB producers get rousted for using uncleared samples. It's pretty rare though.. I say go for it.
Unless you are gonna go big with a fancy record sleeve and use distributors and stuff it should be fine. Just my IMO, might wanna get a couple opinions on this.

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

this will be a digital release (mp3) only if that helps.

It's dubstep / garage and in reality it will sell a projected 50-200 "copies."

thanks

[ tapir - 25 Aug 2008 15:28 ]

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

You're money, bro. I wouldn't trip. Maybe put it out under an alias..for peace of mind. Oh and shoot me a 320 pre release plz.

[ step_correct - 25 Aug 2008 15:45 ]

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

Here's the easiest way to make your decision.

Is this release going to catch enough attention that it could sell at least 5000 units (5000 x $2.00 avg = $10,000)? If so, you may need to clear, if your way under that projected amount, don't even bother because lawyer/court costs alone will exceed your profits.


In a perfect world, yes, you should clear the samples and pay the money (which is probably going to be 5x the amount of money you actually make, depending on who you sampled and the length of it).

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

join ASCAP.

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

I have to say this is kind of a dangerous attitude to have. Best to cover your bases. Performing Rights Associations will gladly bust your ass as hard as they can get away with.

If you're going to bootleg, the very least you should do is make it untraceable.

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According to djcalculon ...

you don't need to do anything - if you are making dnb or dubstep and "releasing" means a digital release only don't waste your time or money doing anything besides making music
**********

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

THis is the best advice given to my by one of the most powerful music attourneys out there: "You always see and negotiate and treat every business transaction as if your song, album etc. will become the best selling song/album ever".

In that case i would cover all bases because if sued (and since u are not incorporated) ur personal finances/savings will be tapped.

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

true that man.l

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

you guys are saying it's better to err on the side of caution but we aren't dealing with high stakes and lots of money

we are dealing with drum n bass and dubstep

thanks for your concern but, this guy has the right to know he shouldn't waste his time and money to clear anything

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

and let me pre-empt a witty retort... there are instances in dnb and dubstep where a sample needs to be cleard (for example chase and status with duppy man) however this guy is not on the level of a bbk artist. if he was he wouldn't be asking for such advice here

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

b-b-b-b-b-b-bootleg that s**t man.


like Defkline and Red polo (deekline and Ed solo)

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

Well i think if he is asking he has some concerns about releasing it thus i personally am just giving the most informed (someone who does Music Publishing and has for 8 yrs.) answer i know. i too would bootleg it, but if he wants to know what is the 100% proper thing to do i felt obliged to say.

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

went to a Reason users convention about a yr or 2 ago..Babu was there talkin about how he uses Reason and what not..someone in the crowd asked him about this.. He said as long as your stayin under the radar with it..u should be cool.. it wasnt until Dilated Peoples really blew up that they started having issues with sample clearance. so i guess, pretty much you can make money but just not too much..atleast thats what he said

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

That's fair, but remember: bodies like the RIAA were targeting entities like Vibeflow, which was neither mainstream nor a money-making operation.

Always best to be safe. Laws are getting stricter! The world is, after all, coming to a point where you can play an iPod in a public place of business and the right (wrong?) people will find out and take legal action against you.

I hear about it all the time, and I'd hate to see it happen to anyone in the scene because they blew it off.

On the other hand, bootleg is pretty safe... but better to get recognized for your work, no?

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According to djcalculon ...

and let me pre-empt a witty retort... there are instances in dnb and dubstep where a sample needs to be cleard (for example chase and status with duppy man) however this guy is not on the level of a bbk artist. if he was he wouldn't be asking for such advice here
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Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

As you have described your song, you would need a sample clearance which would involve everyone associated with the track, writer, publisher, Label, artist, etc. There is no exception by law on the length of the sample or how many copies you sell or do not sell. A work is considered created once it's tangible, CD, Vinyl, etc. And any form of public distribution/performance free or not is subject to copyright infringement.

A sample clearance can be hard to get without $$$ and giving up some of your royalties. However, as someone mentioned above if you have someone else that sounds like the original artist sing the lyrics and incorporate some major element(s) from the music, such as the melody or bass line (which also must be played by someone you hire, not sampled) you can qualify for a Mechanical License. These are less expensive and can usually be done simply by going through The Harry Fox Agency. If the band is signed to an Independent or Major they should be listed. The price in this case is determined by the song and the number of copies you make. So once you run out you need to purchase a new license.

Otherwise you just need to contact the artist directly for details and written permission if they are not signed to a label and/or publisher. Basically it's the difference between a long term contract (Sample Clearance) or a pre-paid contract (Mechanical License)

Peace



[ hiptronicmusic - 18 Nov 2008 08:14 ]
[ hiptronicmusic - 18 Nov 2008 08:12 ]
[ hiptronicmusic - 18 Nov 2008 08:09 ]

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

isnt there a 3 second rule or some period of time that you are allowed to sample without permission? or is this just some cruel myth?

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

No man the three second rule is if you drop your food on the ground.

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

yeah thats the girl talk lawsuit...i guess you can sample up to 15 seconds without having to pay royalties? he cited "fair use" for all the samples he used?

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

If it means anything, I just read an article about how Justice got away with sampling really small bits of music from Queen, 50 Cent, and Slipknot.... I'm not sure what's become of that though....

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

All myths - you can be sued for sampling anything, any length. Copyright gives the copyright owner exclusive rights to distribute, perform, duplicate, make derivative works, and publish music. Fair Use comes into play for stuff like parodies, criticism, and news/educational purposes. For these, naturally you'd want to use highly identifiable elements. Girl Talk doesn't satisfy fair use requirements, it's blatant sampling of distinct elements (derivative works) for the purpose of performance, distribution, publishing, etc.

There are gray areas here, as with flutist Paul Newton and his copyright infringement lawsuit against Beastie Boys for a six-second flute sample in "Pass the Mic" from his composition "Choir". The courts ruled that the sample didn't capture the essence of the composition and therefore the Beastie Boys were not liable for infringement. That's a much different situation than Girl Talk, who uses the most distinguishable elements of s**tloads of popular songs.

On a side note, if you're a really small fish, the likelihood of legal action is greatly reduced. But the RIAA is pretty Draconian, I wouldn't trust that they wouldn't come after you... remember the f**king ridiculous Napster lawsuits against 12-year-olds.

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According to ironix ...

isnt there a 3 second rule or some period of time that you are allowed to sample without permission? or is this just some cruel myth?
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According to 5nk5 ...

yeah thats the girl talk lawsuit...i guess you can sample up to 15 seconds without having to pay royalties? he cited "fair use" for all the samples he used?
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[ 4_.phrantek._4 - 18 Nov 2008 12:04 ]

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

isn't this what white labels are for ?

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

^^^did the laws get stricter cuz i remember back in 95'-96' there was a 6 second rule regarding sampling that i was told/taught by an electronic music teacher..

..actually nowadays i even see more ragga-jungle/DnB producers not sampling as much from tunes and getting original voicings over original beats (and we are usually whores when it comes to sampling..lol) thats what were pushing for is more originality.... but bootlegs are always nice to play, cuz face it, it does grab people who normaly wouldn't listen to DnB and make it recognizable. alot of "mainstream" people are afraid of change..lol

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

does the law state that you cant sample other artists music, period? or is it the making money off of the track that gets you sued. Furthermore, do vinyl distributors and labels deny certain tunes from their artists until proof is shown that the sample is legally purchased?

I guess it must depend on the label/dist., i mean the first one that comes to mind is the over remixed jamrock, i doubt everyone called up damian and said yo can i jack the dopest hook ever made from you?

or perhaps certain samples are made available at a cheap rate based on their popularity?

sorry if im shootin off too many questions, i just always wondered...

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

doesn anybody know what happened with the girl talk situation?

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

I know of some benny page stuff that will never come out on digital soundboy cuz of the sample tings and too much to clear (there label is one that is watched closer than others, due to sales, popularity etc..) .. but i do see bootlegs being distributed on vinyl all the time (i guess cuz they may not be liable?)

(@ that jamrock hook)... that dope ass hook was actually sampled from another song, I wonder how much they payed for that?

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According to ironix ...

do vinyl distributors and labels deny certain tunes from their artists until proof is shown that the sample is legally purchased?

the first one that comes to mind is the over remixed jamrock, i doubt everyone called up damian and said yo can i jack the dopest hook ever made from you?


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Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

bootlegs are KING, but they are for your dj events. I actually have a lot of bootlegs out myself on vinyl, but thats on the label to clear the samples at that point. You need to sign a contract if you put something out and you have not cleared the samples yourself. This will protect your rights if they come after the label that you have signed the tune to. Otherwise, leave the bootlegs to be just for fun, and just for gigs.

I usually pass out my bootlegs to other djs to play for exposure, keeping all the original sign-able tunes to myself for my own sets.

If you are not using the whole tune's vocals and you are only using a bar or two, then you would be surprised how reasonable it is to get samples cleared through harry fox as someone mentioned earlier. Very affordable, and then you dont have to worry about it. =)

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

COOL THANKS FOR THE INFO! im gonna go sit on the couch wishing i knew how to make tunes now =P

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

Actually, yes. Laws have consistently been getting stricter since the Digital Rights Millenium Act (DMCA) of 1998, which contained provisions for broader legal considerations and measures in copyright cases. But even back then, the six-second rule was largely a myth. The whole reason licensing exists is so copyright owners can receive royalties for any commercial use of their material. The precedent set by the Beastie Boys case (Diamond v. Newton) simply gives the law a little more context: the sample cannot be undeniably representative of a composition.

On a separate note - I'm really glad to hear ragga producers are going this route. One of the biggest reasons it started getting old for me was the endless a capella recycling...

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According to steellions ...

^^^did the laws get stricter cuz i remember back in 95'-96' there was a 6 second rule regarding sampling that i was told/taught by an electronic music teacher..

..actually nowadays i even see more ragga-jungle/DnB producers not sampling as much from tunes and getting original voicings over original beats (and we are usually whores when it comes to sampling..lol) thats what were pushing for is more originality.... but bootlegs are always nice to play, cuz face it, it does grab people who normaly wouldn't listen to DnB and make it recognizable. alot of "mainstream" people are afraid of change..lol
**********

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

Ironix:

> does the law state that you cant sample other artists music, period?

No, the essence of copyright law is that you just have to pay artists for using their material. Bigger deal if it's a commercial work, and of course it also depends on the legal entities backing the artist.

> or is it the making money off of the track that gets you sued.

Making money off a bootleg certainly makes legal action against you a more likely scenario.

> Furthermore, do vinyl distributors and labels deny certain tunes from their artists until proof is shown that the sample is legally purchased?

Not always, but they might because of the potential financial liabilities.

> I guess it must depend on the label/dist., i mean the first one that comes to mind is the over remixed jamrock, i doubt everyone called up damian and said yo can i jack the dopest hook ever made from you?

> or perhaps certain samples are made available at a cheap rate based on their popularity?

The cost of using a sample is generally determined by federally mandated licensing fees and royalty rates (US Copyright Office). The popularity of a song doesn't affect the rate, but it certainly may affect the likelihood of approval on a licensing request. In such a case, you can also get a statutory license, but the rates increase for those, if I remember correctly.

> sorry if im shootin off too many questions, i just always wondered...

It's all good, this was a big part of my field of study, so I'm happy to help out. Would be nice to get paid for it one of these days, but until then, at least I can help other people not get sued by the mainstream.

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

I think it's still being hammered out - this is a big thing for legal scholars right now.

BTW, funny article on how he's going after YouTubers for ripping off his "illegal art" - pretty sure it's a joke. But wouldn't it be funny?

http://www.butterteam.com/2008/07/girl-talk-threatens-youtubers-with.html

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According to 5nk5 ...

doesn anybody know what happened with the girl talk situation?
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[ 4_.phrantek._4 - 18 Nov 2008 17:53 ]

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

Good call, and props for the strategy here.

It's nice to hear that you can play it safe and still work something out.

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According to dj.com ...

bootlegs are KING, but they are for your dj events. I actually have a lot of bootlegs out myself on vinyl, but thats on the label to clear the samples at that point. You need to sign a contract if you put something out and you have not cleared the samples yourself. This will protect your rights if they come after the label that you have signed the tune to. Otherwise, leave the bootlegs to be just for fun, and just for gigs.

I usually pass out my bootlegs to other djs to play for exposure, keeping all the original sign-able tunes to myself for my own sets.

If you are not using the whole tune's vocals and you are only using a bar or two, then you would be surprised how reasonable it is to get samples cleared through harry fox as someone mentioned earlier. Very affordable, and then you dont have to worry about it. =)
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Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

About the Distributors: They don't check for clearance because they make you sign an indemnification which will release them of any liability in the case of a suit. It's the responsibility of the artist, publisher, and/or label. These indemnifications are similar to what most studios and engineers use to protect them. This of course applies to all the websites too. Read their terms of use and make sure your not getting jacked.

Moss

Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

he's gotta be joking, that would be hilarious if he tried to go after youtubers lol

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According to 4_.phrantek._4 ...

I think it's still being hammered out - this is a big thing for legal scholars right now.

BTW, funny article on how he's going after YouTubers for ripping off his "illegal art" - pretty sure it's a joke. But wouldn't it be funny?

http://www.butterteam.com/2008/07/girl-talk-threatens-youtubers-with.html

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According to 5nk5 ...

doesn anybody know what happened with the girl talk situation?
**********

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Re: sampled an acapella...can i release this tune legally?

thank you very much phrantek, alot of really good information.