forums : Producing

oldschool jungle production

I was wondering what specific drum machines and samplers ,jungle producers were using in 94 ? to get those crazy roller beats and unpredictable amen mashups ? I dont understand why no producers now r using those methods anymore. ? is it $ ? hardware and software to much$ for the common at home junglist. Or is it just america , with its half fast ,- microwave everthing,to get the quickest results ! WTF ?
well anyways ,this should be an interesting forum>LOL

Please reply , if u no what ur talking about >.....

Re: oldschool jungle production

Atari 1040st & Akai S2000 sampler + some weird hardware (synths etc)...

Re: oldschool jungle production

Hit up Paradox on myspace .It will take a bit to get a answer but he will most likely answer and he is one hell of a nice guy.

Re: oldschool jungle production

I'm interested in knowing too. Ain't nothing like a good Amen cut! Amen4life!

Edit: let me rephrase that... I want to know more about programming breaks in mindf**kery type ways. As for the old equipment... well... f**k it :-/

[ luciphercolors - 8 Apr 2009 02:32 ]

Re: oldschool jungle production

Back when people used to make stuff like that, it was on Atari sequencers and samplers.

I dont understand why no producers now r using those methods anymore. ?

You wonder why nobody uses overcomplicated equipment? Tools have just advanced because that's what producers have demanded. And it's well-known cats like BT and a lot of cutting edge drum and bass producers who are really revolutionizing electronic music production, which requires an intimidating level of detail and focus to engineer. That gear and level of production is more or less obsolete, which is not to imply "bad" or "worthless", of course. But why would you move a mountain of dirt with a spoon if you had a shovel?

to get those crazy roller beats and unpredictable amen mashups ?
That's all programming. I think everyone should respect good drum programming, but I don't think that complex programming is necessary. If anything, I kind of look at it as a technical thing that actually doesn't express much musically. The reason drum and bass has evolved is because the people that started out were all more or less experimental artists. Ed Rush, Trace, Nico, and Fierce were the really early ones doing dark, minimal sci-fi kinda stuff (to get a good sense of the transition between hardcore/jungle and drum and bass, check out Ed's "Bludclot Artattack"). A few years back I knew a guy who lived in Georgia, really big techstep fan, and he asked Ed Rush after his set once (paraphrased), "Why don't you guys go back to doing techstep?" and Ed basically told him that style had already been done, they were trying new things...
These people are artists, you know? Artists develop or they stagnate. I think you could honestly listen to a lot of the stuff today and call it totally captivating music, not just tracks with crazy drum programming and sub bass. If you like that stuff though, there are still some guys making it as far as I know. Check the ragga board.

is it $ ? hardware and software to much$ for the common at home junglist.
There's a lot of free software available, although it's not as great as a professional software package, which can run up to $500 or so, depending on what you get...
If you want to be legit, obviously you have to pay for plugins.

Or is it just america , with its half fast ,- microwave everthing,to get the quickest results ! WTF ?
Dude, don't assume for even ONE MINUTE that it doesn't take a lot of time, effort and love to make the kind of stuff that comes out these days. If you think it all sucks, I think you're probably not respecting it for what it is - which is a dynamic and progressive genre of music that is so broad you could actually find a subgenre within it to suit ANYONE'S tastes.
And it is NOT easy. Ask everyone here, we've probably collectively spent a billion hours trying to get our engineering to really pop. Have a little more respect for the process.

Re: oldschool jungle production

**********
According to diode ...

I dont understand why no producers now r using those methods anymore. ?
**********


there are still plenty of people chopping amens.. *shrug*

Re: oldschool jungle production

cause you dont have to take the long way anymore..

you know how insanely tedious that is chopping those on an akai or atari or amiga?? omg thats hell...

i could do the same exact job in 1/10th of the time with software. the good thing about hardware tho, is that you get that analog feel/sound... but.. you can also recreate that by running your tune thru a mixer or a tube/compressor etc etc..

Re: oldschool jungle production

WoW, didnt think id get that many replys so quick ????
Thanks everone for ur input !
Dont misunderstand my comment, i have the upmost respect for jungle D+b
producers. Shit , ive spent 100's of hours producing trks also . (u know mainfraime?) uve heard my trks before ..!
SO ,,,, i can appreciate the time it took, but theres nothin like that old school sound ! ( atomic dog ,bass interval,Ibiza,sour records,SS,remarc, t-power,shyFX...ect...ect...ect just to name a few.. )
well , im experimenting with some new methods, like multiple samplers+sequencers , some crazy vst plugins , live editing , micro korg, even external analog effects pedals + processors.
not to mention great recording software .... pro tools,cubase,abelton .
if it takes me countless hours to come up with one original, unpredictable, sounding track , than so be it . Its all just fun to me anyways. and maybe it will lead to playing out live shows .

Respect junglist

Laterz
Diode

Re: oldschool jungle production

{ I kind of look at it as a technical thing that actually doesn't express much musically. }


I have to disagree with this comment ,
Most music now a days , is mindless , quick fix s**t ! im mean how much more can we simplify things. if it has a bass line ,drumbeat, sample,or synth, OH WOW ! thats expession ??!!! give me a break . i respect electronis music and all ,but wen it comes to talent ,,, NAh , dont think so !!
I ve been playing guitar,drums,bass,piano,saxaphone, or any other instrument put in front of me, for 15 years . So ur not gonna tell me what true musical expression is :< !!! Beethoven , Bach , western art music, jazz music.
Now thats musical expression ! Even mainstream rock music , has become wacked out. Well come to think about it, any mainstream music is wack !
electronic, or not . And im not sure bout this new dubstep thing happening.?
some heavy bass , yes ..!, but it doesnt take much to push a couple keys or buttons . to get that sound. ( Placement of those sounds is important though .>
thats how to get original ,expressive music. Put some time into ur work ! damit
Take somthing u think is done and go over it , move it around,add effects+ original melodys, play somthin ! ect ect ....

Well, i dont wanna keep going with this subject .

Laterz

Re: oldschool jungle production

you sound like you are 9... stop it please.



there is SO much new music going on that is totally wonky, weird, fun, new and different. ALL genres. for someone that is on the internet as much as im guessing you are, you need to look a bit deeper. Maybe navigate away from dnb arena?

just my thoughts.

[ djpawn - 9 Apr 2009 09:26 ]

Re: oldschool jungle production

**********
According to diode ...





Most music now a days , is mindless , quick fix s**t ! im mean how much more can we simplify things. if it has a bass line ,drumbeat, sample,or synth, OH WOW
**********


I don't get it bro, you just basically described THE very elements of the sound you are trying to achieve as weak?

Re: oldschool jungle production

^truth.


94 sound jungle IS drum, bass and minimal synths and samples. stripped down and awesome. leaving the energy of those elements in the forefront...

Music nowadays is more like 94 than ever... i dont get this guy.

[ djpawn - 9 Apr 2009 10:19 ]

Re: oldschool jungle production

*Shrugs* your Beethoven / Bach / Jazz music history is describing classical and technical experience in live music. I like a lot of free jazz, bebop, etc. too - but that's actual people playing, expressing themselves... I don't see how that equates to editing breaks, unless your drum programming can sound like an actual person playing. I'm not trying to school you on your musical chops.

I guess I don't think that it's terribly important for electronic music to emulate real music. Part of what's great about electronic / dance music is that it can be whatever the artist wants it to be. Drum and bass is still all about the elements it's named for, and it's about groove. There's nothing wrong with adopting a danceable structure and an approach that focuses on thematic elements and tends to have a very funk-like approach to music. There's a lot to be said for beauty in simplicity, you know?

More than anything I see that electronic music is basically playing with moods, which you create through a combination of elements. It's kind of rude to say people who make this kind of music don't have any talent just because *you* don't consider it talent. I mean, this IS a production board, so... I think we pretty much universally write tunes here. No need to hate on our art Be happy doing what you do.

I don't think that what is or isn't "expression" is dictated by subjective opinion though. We all have something to express, and honest expression is inherently valuable. We don't have to like it, but that doesn't mean it sucks. In all honesty I love all that old skool ragga, but with such a narrow sound palette after a while it didn't have a whole lot of character to it from one tune to the next. I think a lot of what's coming out is vastly expressive in comparison, with a lot of personality and breadth... I guess I really just don't see what you see.


**********
According to diode ...

{ I kind of look at it as a technical thing that actually doesn't express much musically. }


I have to disagree with this comment ,
Most music now a days , is mindless , quick fix s**t ! im mean how much more can we simplify things. if it has a bass line ,drumbeat, sample,or synth, OH WOW ! thats expession ??!!! give me a break . i respect electronis music and all ,but wen it comes to talent ,,, NAh , dont think so !!
I ve been playing guitar,drums,bass,piano,saxaphone, or any other instrument put in front of me, for 15 years . So ur not gonna tell me what true musical expression is :< !!! Beethoven , Bach , western art music, jazz music.
Now thats musical expression ! Even mainstream rock music , has become wacked out. Well come to think about it, any mainstream music is wack !
electronic, or not . And im not sure bout this new dubstep thing happening.?
some heavy bass , yes ..!, but it doesnt take much to push a couple keys or buttons . to get that sound. ( Placement of those sounds is important though .>
thats how to get original ,expressive music. Put some time into ur work ! damit
Take somthing u think is done and go over it , move it around,add effects+ original melodys, play somthin ! ect ect ....

Well, i dont wanna keep going with this subject .

Laterz
**********

Re: oldschool jungle production

dear sir or madams,

please use the following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracker



^^ that pretty much sums up id say 95% of old mashed up crazy drum s**t.


regards,
Bnj.

Re: oldschool jungle production

Venetian Snares produced Rossz Csillag Allat Született and My Downfall (Original Soundtrack) in Renoise, as with most of his other works. If you really wanna learn Amen madness then you should probably pick up a tracker and roll with the breakcore/drill-n-bass/whateverthef**kyouwannacallit crowd

**********
According to bnj ...

dear sir or madams,

please use the following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracker



^^ that pretty much sums up id say 95% of old mashed up crazy drum s**t.


regards,
Bnj.
**********

[ luciphercolors - 9 Apr 2009 23:19 ]

Re: oldschool jungle production

dirtydeeds

"Atari 1040st & Akai S2000 sampler + some weird hardware (synths etc)..."

Agreed.

Try Akaizer . Free software replicating Akai S-series samplers i think. (not personally tested so dont yell if garbage, but meant to be quite good)

Re: oldschool jungle production

ask this question on this board: www.ragga-jungle.com

lots of artists on that board who are very familiar with the ways of the old school junglism ways. tell them I sent ya and get a free haterade haha

Re: oldschool jungle production

I'm running with a harem of 3 Atari's and 2 Amigas.. it's all MIDI based.. it's slow but I do love the sound from the 12 bit samplers . . YES it is tedious.. the atari has a small ass 12" screen and runs at like 8MHZ... it takes patience for sure..

Re: oldschool jungle production

Ataris and Amigas? Super-rad!

I miss my Amiga. Anyone ever play "Lemmings"?

_Origin

Re: oldschool jungle production

I've got lemmings.. CD32 Version and Original.. :-) I'm all Amiga'd out:

A2000 x 2
A1200 x 1
A4000 x 3
MiniMig
CD32

Tons of MIDI controllers and Soundcards and samplers...

Re: oldschool jungle production

according to (tool) diode
And im not sure bout this new dubstep thing happening.?
some heavy bass , yes ..!, but it doesnt take much to push a couple keys or buttons . to get that sound. ( Placement of those sounds is important though .>
thats how to get original ,expressive music. Put some time into ur work ! damit


WOW!!! Congratulations.. you are a f**king tool!!!

[ notch - 2 Jun 2009 07:54 ]